374 Brandon Barnum

Jeffrey Feldberg: [00:00:00] While a single dad in 1997, Brandon Barnum was an early technology innovator featuring real estate property listings from wheelchairs he partnered with and promoted. After learning the art and science of referrals, he increased his annual income 10x from 20, 000 to over 200, 000 in just 18 months.

Brandon has since closed over 500 million in transactions by referrals and has founded multiple local and online referral platforms and networks connecting more than 5 million members in 195 countries.

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Welcome to Deep Wealth Podcast, Deep Wealth Nation I have a question for you because you know the old saying, the best way to grow your business is word of mouth, it's referrals. So when you look yourself in the mirror, are you hitting it out of the park or is it, well, we could probably be a little bit better.

And for most business owners, it's the latter. We could probably be a little bit better. Well, worry, no more. You're going to hear the ins and outs of what you can do to take your business to the next level from referrals from a master. And that said, Brandon, I'm going to put a plug in it right there.

Welcome to Deep Wealth Podcast. An absolute pleasure to have you with us. And I'm curious, Brandon, because there is always a story behind the story. What's your story? What got you from where you [00:04:00] were to where you are today?

Brandon Barnum: Oh, I love it, Jeffrey. What a great question. Great way to start off. Thanks for having me. And when I think back to my origin story, back in college, I found out you don't have to be married to have a kid. And so at 22, I had my first son, and then at 24, I was a single dad. I had full custody of my wife.

 My son, and I was only making 20, 000 a year at that point, and so I couldn't afford my mortgage and the daycare bills, and I found out because I kept getting my checks back for my mortgage in the mail with three little letters that said NSF, meaning insufficient funds, right? So we've all been there, had to make a change.

I ended up getting into the mortgage industry myself as a loan officer, and had somebody mentor me in the art and science of what I now call raving referrals. And I was able to 10x my income from 20, 000 to 200, 000 within 18 months. So ever since then, I've been on a mission to help as many people as possible do the same thing.

Jeffrey Feldberg: It's a terrific story [00:05:00] and what a blessing to be a parent. I know easier said than done and having two children of my own, but at such a young age, I can just imagine. But I'm wondering, Brandon, you know, as you look back, so you built Raven Referrals. It's huge. It's this powerful platform. It's changing marketing as we know it.

When you're looking back, is there a specific defining moment that you said, Hey, you know what? This is really my calling. I see myself doing this. This is what I want to do.

Brandon Barnum: Yeah, a great question. Again, so I spent 12 years in the mortgage business and I ended up doing over a half a billion dollars in transactions by referral. And at that point, it was really about winning business for myself, and I wasn't thinking beyond myself at that point, but when the mortgage market and the real estate industry pulled back in that big short of 2008, 2009, I realized I really was passionate about it.

Creating technology that empowers others. And so I took everything that I learned and started building tech to support [00:06:00] people. And, so that was the process. I'd say about 2011, we created a platform called trustedteam. com. And that was the point where it really felt like everything I had done up to that was leading me to this point to create this movement.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And what's interesting, when you look at your journey, the number of people that you helped, where you've been, where you're going, what you're doing, as entrepreneurs, the glass is always half full. And that said, let's take a step back for a second. For maybe not everyone, but for most people, I suspect, when they come onto the scene, they begin to speak with you.

They're exploring how you may be able to help them. One of my favorite questions in this kind of situation, some people call it Pareto's Law or the 80 20 rule. Are you seeing the same 20 percent of, some people call them problems, I call them opportunities, the same 20 percent of these opportunity areas, as we call them, that people are doing that are just creating 80 percent of the challenges and headaches for them, and what would they be?

What are you [00:07:00] seeing?

Brandon Barnum: Well, I love the question, Jeffrey, and I promise that to the listeners, he didn't team me up for this question, but I love the question because we surveyed thousands of professionals, and we wanted to know the answer to exactly that question. What is the issue that holds people back? Why don't they get more business by referral?

Because In the business world, most people most of their business by referral. In fact, in B2B services, 84 percent of B2B sales start with a referral. You need that trust transfer to be able to get to the C suite, to the decision maker, and to be able to close that deal. So, we surveyed thousands of pros, and we asked them all about their referral business, and we found two major things.

That most people was sort of a blind spot or a gap for them. Number one is they weren't comfortable asking for referrals. There was just a block there where they weren't asking for referrals on a regular basis. And number [00:08:00] two, and this is where your question of the 80 20 comes into play. Most people don't create referral partnerships.

So we ask them, how many referral partners do you have that have sent you at least one new client in the last 90 days? And it's literally the 80 20 rule, or it's the 79 21 rule, because 47 percent said they had one to two. So when you add those together, that's 79%.

of the respondents that said they have zero to two referral partners. And when we dug deeper, we found those people weren't making the kind of money that we wanted. And on the flip side, only 2 percent had 10 or more referral partners in place, and those people were making on average 250, 000 or more per year.

So we recognized that was the biggest gap. Most people are out there building their business by themselves, and when they really create aligned partners, people that are already serving their perfect prospects every day and build their [00:09:00] business together, then everyone achieves success faster.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so, Brandon, it's interesting because you've literally written the book. And Deep Wealth Nation, if you go to the show notes, there are all kinds of links in there, but one of them is for the book. You also have a terrific course that's out there. And Deep Wealth Nation, I want to give you a heads up because when you see what Brandon's doing, started off in, the mortgage market, went out and helped dentists and others, but I got to share with you As an entrepreneur, some of my biggest breakthroughs came from other industries because it wasn't the group think and I saw things in a different light.

So maybe you're not a dentist, maybe you're not in the mortgage market. It doesn't matter. Best practices are best practices. They're around for a reason because they work. And so I'm wondering, what When an organization, regardless of the industry that they're in, they begin to go through the program, Brandon, what can they expect to see?

What would be some of the, Oh, I never realized we weren't doing this. We've got to start doing it. Or, Hey, we were doing this. Wow. We better stop doing this because it's hurting us. What's going on there?

Brandon Barnum: Yeah, well, [00:10:00] so we start everybody with a referral score quiz, and this is a 60 second quiz that takes people through the 10 best practices as it relates to their referral business. And inevitably, people find blind spots, they find things that they are doing very well and things that they're not doing very well.

And so that's one of the things that we focus on is really helping them identify where are those gaps that we can fill in and what happens in a matter of a couple of minutes. is they're able to identify those blind spots and then they're able to fill them in through some of the coursework that we teach and train but just being aware of the fact that oh you mean when i get a referral i need to thank the person that gave me the referral yes you do and you know what else you need to follow up with them and let them know how the transaction goes and update them and i'll tell you a quick story You know I had a mortgage company myself.

I own my own mortgage brokerage and I had this client call me up one [00:11:00] day and this is a vice president for Intel. This guy made hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, very influential man. He had done multiple transactions with me and he had referred a few clients to me and he calls me up one day and checks in, says, how's it going?

And he said, hey, I just wanted to find out how did it go with Mike that I referred you, a couple months back. And he said, Oh, it's great. We just closed on his refinance a couple of weeks ago. And then there was this long pause and silence, a little awkward, to be honest with you. Then he comes back and he says.

Do you mind if I give you a little coaching? And I'm like, okay, this should be good. Yes, of course, feedbacks, breakfasts, and champions. And he says, number one, it's a really good idea to thank people when they give you referrals. And I hadn't done that. And I felt like such an idiot. I totally missed it.

And then number two, he said, it's also a really good idea to follow up and update people. As they [00:12:00] go through the transaction to let them know if you're able to help their friend or not. So those were two very important lessons that I learned along the way that's been baked into this program.

And what was fascinating to me is this guy, I had earned over 50, 000 by helping him with his previous transactions. But the value of this relationship was massive and I had totally missed the mark. So, I've been able to find out things that I was not able to find out in this past year by not thanking them and not updating them.

So, immediately I had thank you cards printed up from my company, and any of my loan officers could send a quick thank you for the referral. They just put the name of the person that they had received the referral to in the form, and they were able to send out a card and a gift card immediately. So it's things like that make a big difference.

They're small. But it makes a huge difference in the relationship building that you're doing. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: it's the small things that add up just to be the massive ones. And so let me ask you this. You can [00:13:00] agree or disagree, at least in my experience, data point of one, business is personal and whoever said business isn't personal either, hasn't run a business, they haven't been in business, they haven't dealt in business, and so I wanted to ask you, from your success in business, what you've been able to do, when you look at it personally, I'm wondering how has your journey and your experiences, like the one that you just shared and possibly others, how did they shape your beliefs, really help you formulate your strategies for the power of referrals and relationships?

I'm wondering what's going on with that.

Brandon Barnum: Relationships are so key to all success in my experience, most of the amazing opportunities that have been presented to me have come because somebody has made an introduction. They referred me to somebody else, created that connection. For example, my mentor for 20 years has been Mark Victor Hansen.

He wrote those books, Chicken Soup for the Soul. We've had a mentorship, partnership, friendship, relationship for 20 years now, and that started as a personal introduction from a [00:14:00] financial planner that knew him. I had hired Mark to come speak at a charity fundraising event on May 18, 2004. So literally over 20 years.

And what's come from investing in that one relationship? One of the things I teach in the book is to influence influencers.

If you can add value and make a difference to people that have an audience, much like yourself, Jeffrey, you're inviting me on to your show so that I can add value to your audience, and that hopefully they can get some golden nuggets here that's going to make a difference and change their life in some way.

And so when you can do that with people and really add value to the people in your life, Over time, you build that trust factor, and it leads to amazing opportunities that you can't buy your way into.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. I love that. We will get to the trust factor in just a moment. So much there in what you're sharing. And firstly, thank you for being so open and so vulnerable with your first experience where someone pulled you aside and, hey, Brandon, can I give you a little bit of a leadership learning moment [00:15:00] here and they shared about, say thank you.

So I'm wondering because I'm sure like yourself, you're successful, you're smart, you're driven, Some things weren't so apparent for you, and if we were to speak to most entrepreneurs and ask them about referrals and what they're doing or not doing, sadly, the grade would likely not be an A or A it'd probably be an F.

And what's going on with that? So from a very high level, why is it as entrepreneurs, we're just dropping the ball with it? What are the key challenges that we're just either not seeing or we're just not doing?

Brandon Barnum: Well, I think it goes back to that referral score quiz. The average score, to your point, is 38 out of 100. So, most people fail when they take it the first time. Now, the beauty is, just by taking it identifies those blind spots, and 90 days later, typically, most people double their score, because now, They're aware, say you can't see the picture when you're inside the frame, [00:16:00] and that's so true. So sometimes we're so close to it, we're not seeing things, and that's where we need that outside advisor or perspective. Once people identify the issues, then they're able to make the corrections, and it makes a huge difference for them.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And it's interesting because you walk the talk, Deep Wealth Nation, again, go to the show notes, there's a link, click on the link, go to the book, get out the book, Waving Referrals, The Proven Step by Step System to Attract Profitable Prospects. Brandon, what I loved about that, when I first started going through the book, right up front in the very early pages, you're acknowledging the contributors.

And not just In a passing name, you have a whole table and you have the name and what's going on. And I thought, wow, you don't really see it. You're really walking the talk in this case. And so with that said, what does it take from your perspective, from someone who's not making the grade? They're literally failing.

What do they need to do coming out of this episode? Okay. Heard Brandon talk. Yeah, I'm going to get the book. I'll go through the [00:17:00] course, but they want to start changing themselves that they are welcoming the referrals. What should someone start doing?

Brandon Barnum: Yeah, again, the two biggest things that we found in our research is people not feeling comfortable asking for referrals. And secondly, not having partnerships. So let's talk about the art of the ask, because this is a gap for most people. They just don't have a way. They don't know when to ask and how to ask in a way that they're comfortable and confident and that their clients feel that way too.

So what we teach is that when you first have a new client that hires you or engages your service, what you want to do is say, before I let you leave, Can I ask you for a favor? This is called setting the stage. This is step one, setting the stage, when you ask someone if they're open to doing a favor for you, they'll all say either yes or maybe tell me more.

Now what you want to do is say, listen, I love helping clients like you have a five star experience and then get this result. Whatever that result is, [00:18:00] whatever you do in your company to provide a five star experience, You claim that result that you know that they're after. So, what I'd like to request is once you've had a five star experience with us, once we've gone above and beyond and really delivered on what you're out for, would it be okay to ask you for referrals?

Now, that's called setting the stage because you're not asking them for referrals right now. You're not putting them on the spot. It's not uncomfortable. Really, you're doubling down on your commitment to provide five star service. What happens is, sometimes you're going to get a referral right in that moment, because they're going to say, Jeffrey, I'm so glad you mentioned that.

I actually have a brother, sister, cousin, co worker that needs you right now. And so you'll get business immediately, but you're setting the stage. You're planting seeds that you're going to nurture throughout that service relationship, so that you can ask when the time is right.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely. And I know you're talking about chapter [00:19:00] eight in the book, Master the Art of the Ask. And it actually, it goes back to chapter four, which is any good entrepreneur or salesperson should know, learn why they buy. What's the pain point? What's the problem that we're solving? That when we speak with them, we can hone in, and after the fact, we can, hey, how are we doing on this?

When we spoke, you said A, B, and C, how are we doing? And I suppose sometimes we get answers we don't really want to hear, and other times, it is what we want to hear. But that's got to be tough for a lot of people of, well, Jeffrey, you're hitting it out of the park, or you know what, you're not quite cutting it like I thought you would.

So what's going on there? How do we deal with that?

Brandon Barnum: Well, so when we set the stage we have that initial conversation, what you're going to find is that some people are going to give you referrals now, and others are going to give you referrals later. Your whole goal here is to, once you've set the stage, that's step one. Step two is to listen for the referral triggers and that's essentially, thank you, wow, an expression of appreciation, Jeffrey, you've helped me, grow my business, [00:20:00] lose weight, whatever your outcome is that you deliver.

And once you hear that wow moment, that's when it's time to ask, because now somebody's at a peak state. They know that you're going to take good care of them because they have that personal experience. And so now we go to step three, which is to ASK to GET, right? We're going to ask to get referrals.

And so the way you do that is you've just heard somebody say, Wow, this is amazing. Jeffrey, thank you so much. Now, what you want to do is say, I'm so glad to hear that. I love helping people like you get this type of result. Would you happen to know anybody else that I can serve to really provide that solution for them and go above and beyond just like I did for you?

So that's a way that you can ask with confidence and comfort and what it does, it really commits yourself to providing amazing experience for the people that you're serving. And then throughout that process, they're thinking about [00:21:00] you. And even when you're done serving them, they're gonna refer you other people in the future.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I love what you're saying. And I know for so many entrepreneurs they're thinking, and Deep Wealth Nation is thinking, yeah, you know what, Brandon, I hear you, but wow, isn't that a big ask? And in so many ways, when I hear that, and again, you can share, Jeffrey, on base or off base, we're doing a disservice to the customer.

And from a very personal level, when we find a movie that we love, or we go to a new restaurant, what do we do? We tell the whole world about it, and we actually take some pride of ownership, hey, I went to this new restaurant, or Brandon, you gotta check out this movie I went, you're gonna absolutely love it.

Why are we doing it? Well, we want to share that experience that we had with our friends, our loved ones, our families, our colleagues. And I really don't think it's much different. Love you to weigh in on this. On the business side, if they really love what we're doing, to give them the opportunity, give them the platform, have them talk to other people, their colleagues, their associates, their family members, who knows, for our service, our business of how we can help them.

Where are you on that?

Brandon Barnum: Yeah, [00:22:00] no, totally agree. Uh, That's really part of the process. And research shows that 90% of human beings trust a recommendation from somebody that we know. So, if you say that, if, just like you're saying, if somebody has an amazing experience, you want to tell other people about it. You want to help them have that same result and experience that you did.

And that's what we do naturally. And the question is, how are you systematizing that into your business? So that you're getting a consistent referral flow coming to you every week.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And you may have references and you're talking about the referral flows every week and wow, that sounds great. So in chapter 10 of Raving Referrals, so you talk about lifelong relationships and you mentioned this earlier in the world of M& A. So when our community is going through the 90 day Deep Wealth Mastery Program, one of the things that we teach them about when you're in your business exit, you're speaking to an investor or buyer, the currency isn't money.

In fact, that's the bottom of the list. Number one, it's trust. [00:23:00] Do they trust you? Do you do what you say? You say what you do. And so with referrals and lifelong relationships, how does trust play into this? What's going on?

Brandon Barnum: Trust is huge. Trust is something that is, is hard to earn and easily broken/ It really comes down to integrity. You've got to live your word and you've got to show up consistently. And the more that you do that, the higher your trust score goes with them but it's easy to break if you aren't, A lacking integrity at any point.

If you don't live your word, people are going to call you on it. The more integrity that you can display to others, the higher that your trust with them is going to go. And the more referrals that you're going to find, they're going to send to you.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And it's a general question, and you'd be so right in saying, Jeffrey, it's so general, it's going to be different from person to person. When it comes to building trust or maybe the flip side of losing that trust, what are some telltale signs that we can do actions? Thoughts, words that we can either lose that trust or to gain that trust, [00:24:00] anything that you can share.

Brandon Barnum: Well, number one, what you want to do is just be authentic. If something goes up look, business, Things happen and especially when I was back in the mortgage industry, your whole commitment is to try and close that transaction on time because somebody's counting on you to move in and change their family to completely transform their lives, but if something arises that's causing an issue, you've got to proactively communicate that to people, and that's a big part of trust because some people sort of cower from those uncomfortable conversations.

You've got to own it. Just let people know that you're apologizing if there's a, something, a breakdown along the way, but that's when you show your commitment to care and how you're going to go above and beyond to solve the issue. So, first and foremost, make sure that you're living your word and part of that is owning it if something goes wrong.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah, the accountability, the transparency. And let me ask you, because when it comes to accountability and transparency, we now have artificial [00:25:00] intelligence, generative AI for short, and you hear so many things about that. Some of the things that I'm hearing. And you can share your thoughts as well on that is, yeah, AI in the business world is just going to take over everything.

We're no longer going to have to write emails. We're not going to have to send those thank you notes or those thank you emails. AI is going to do all that for us. Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. I'm sure by the time this episode airs, it will have completely changed from where we are today as we record this to where it's going to be.

On the positive side, though, Brandon. How does AI fit into raving referrals, into building that trust, into lifelong relationships? Where is there a role or perhaps not a role? Wow.

Brandon Barnum: up AI. We actually built an AI engine five years ago for, you mentioned why they buy, but we created an AI to help decode somebody's personality system personality code on LinkedIn using a Chrome extension in one click in one [00:26:00] second. And what that did, and this is five years ago, before ChatGPT and OpenAI, and you could just plug in and, use their technology to bolt onto yours.

Back then, we had to hire an AI expert from IBM Watson to come help us build this. This was early days in AI. But what I love about AI, it is absolutely going to transform the world. People don't understand the impact that AI is making and the speed and velocity of change. And, we're using it on, at HOA.

com. We just did a pilot project where, 90 days ago, we integrated this into 32 HOA communities here in Phoenix, Arizona, where I live. what happens is the AI understands everything about the HOA, all the CC& Rs, all the rules and regulations, policies and procedures, payments, addresses, timelines, all that.

And so we were able to integrate what we call our community concierge, where homeowners would call in, they would have a conversation [00:27:00] with our AI, and they didn't really realize that it was artificial intelligence. Well, in the first 45 days, we took 8, 700 phone calls. And 83 percent of those were handled to the homeowner's satisfaction without needing a human being involved.

So we increased homeowner satisfaction. We decreased the demand of the HOA board or property management company's response time. So total win scenario. And in that process we're perfecting it now because we're about to roll that out nationwide because we believe that AI is going to completely transform the HOA industry and so many others.

I

Jeffrey Feldberg: So with that in mind and Deep Wealth Nation, I hope you're listening because here it's not running away from the technology because we're afraid of it. What does this mean? Or I don't know where to begin, or I don't understand it. I love what you did because Brandon, you ran towards the technology even before it was as easy as it is today.

I mean, You're talking really Neanderthal stage [00:28:00] back in the day, IBM Watson coming in, someone from that organization to help out, but you ran towards that. And one of the takeaways, what I'm hearing from you is really Mindset wise, and this is really all about you and your personal journey, just being opened.

Let's explore it. Let's see where it's all going to be going. And so from AI, it's an easy segue, digital platforms. Again, as we sit here today, anyone can connect with just about anyone. In their pajamas, in the comfort of their home, in ways never before possible. It's so easy now. Some say it's almost too easy, that you talk about the art of the ask, well, the art of networking in many ways, some people are saying, well, it's just too easy.

We've lost the art of person to person networking, really forming those strong, solid bonds. Perhaps yes, perhaps no. Where are you on that? So when it comes to referrals, that lifelong relationship, digital platforms. What's the, I'm not going to use the word balance, I'm going to use the word blend in all of this.

What does that look [00:29:00] like? 

Brandon Barnum: AI is going to help you stay in touch with people and nurture relationships. That's what we're seeing. But I think the truth of the matter is the more that there's a rise in artificial intelligence, the more real relationships and relational currency truly matter. And that's when we get face to face.

At HOA. com, we're passionate about connecting communities. We believe that we're creating unity through community. We believe that neighbors should get to know their neighbors again. And so, part of our mission is to help unite that community and bring people together in a deeper relationship, where they have real relationships in the real world that are facilitated through the digital world.

It's a hybrid approach. Back in college, I was a business major and I had this great professor in a course called Entrepreneurship. And he said, you've got to look at the world through new eyes. You've got to identify this guy, his name was Jack Taylor. I'll never forget him.

Made a huge difference in my [00:30:00] life because he said, you've got to identify the problems of the future and provide the solutions. Before people even know they need it.

And so that sort of North Star over the last 30 years has guided me 'cause I've always seen the lens for that. And I'm a futurist.

So I look at what is the world we wanna create? And I don't look through the lens of there being a box. There is no box. There is no spoon to quote the matrix, right?

And so when we look at that through that lens, we recognize that. We're coming back to a place where we want to feel connected again.

In that whole 2020 episode, people got more disconnected than ever, and we hear that all the time. People are like, I just don't have many referral partners because they don't have many relationships. So my question to you is, who are you doing life with? Who are the people that you're building your business with that you love hanging out with?

People that you want to go, grab a [00:31:00] cocktail with or a beer or whatever, a cup of coffee, whatever you're into, but people that you like and you want to do life with. And when you find those people and you align on business principles and you can boost your business together, everybody wins in the process.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Brandon, as you talk about that, Deep Wealth Nation, let's tune into your favorite radio station, WII. FM, the What's In It For Me? Because you may be saying, okay, Brandon, I hear you. Yeah, you've got this book. You have this course. It sounds like a lot of time that I don't have, a lot of focus that simply isn't there.

What's in it for me? And again, Brandon, you can tell me on base or off base. You said it yourself, when a referral is a referral, the right kind of referral, well, our sales cycle immediately gets shortened. We have that trust factor. It no longer is about price. It's, okay, what kind of value are you going to be offering me?

So and so said that you're it. Why should I stop my search? I want to find out more about what you're doing. And it just becomes so much easier to grow the [00:32:00] business. And we have people really around the clock. Selling for us, so we're going to increase our prospects, increase our sales, hopefully our growth is going up, our profits are growing up, we're having some fun in the process, we're saving some time, it's not all that grueling hard work, how am I doing with that?

The WII. FM for Deep Wealth Nation, what else would you add to that?

Brandon Barnum: Yeah, you got it. I mean, we, always preach the three I's, right? Referrals help increase your income, your influence, and your impact. Now, different people have different priorities. For me, impact is number one, right? My, my scoreboard of my life, So what I do is to uplift, inspire, and empower every person on the planet.

So that's how I see life. That's how I wake up every day is, how can I make the biggest impact as possible? And through that, the influence grows and the income follows as well. But to your point, Referrals are a magic secret weapon, right? Because when someone's referred to you, they [00:33:00] are 400 percent more likely to hire you because of that trust transfer.

So it, it accelerates relationships. It helps eliminate shopping, right? People are less price conscious if they're referred because of that trust transfer. And, As a result of that, overall, referred clients are 16 percent more profitable than somebody that finds you through an online ad, for example.

Jeffrey Feldberg: That's crazy. As you're talking about that, two words come to mind, ease and effortlessness. When you have the right kind of referral network, the right kind of system, the It becomes easy, and not to confuse easy with simple or simplicity, it takes the right kind of thinking, the effort, the time to build into it, but the ROI, when you do it right, it's the gift that keeps on giving.

And so let me ask you this, because you've been very open, very vulnerable through your story and for Deep Wealth Nation, it hasn't been that, you know what, Brandon's here today, he just shows up and everything's going his way, he's [00:34:00] had his challenges right from the very beginning. When you look at some of the Some people call them setbacks, challenges.

Again, I'm going to call them opportunities. When you look at those opportunity points, both in your personal life, on the business side of things, how did that shape you for where you are today? Because when I go to raving referrals, I see the network of people that you've created, that are out there, that are singing your praise, these qualified experts, these instructors, the communities that you're helping.

It's remarkable. It all came from somewhere. You're the mastermind behind this. I know you have a terrific team now, and it's not just you that's doing it. But it was you in the beginning who put this all together. So what was it in your journey that perhaps, as you look back, certain milestones or certain opportunity events that really were a game changer for you?

Brandon Barnum: Well, certainly getting into the mortgage industry and then finding a mentor, right? Finding a guide that points you in the right direction, that gives you the plan, because When you're starting out in business, you don't necessarily know where you're headed. You've [00:35:00] got to have direction and that North Star.

Where are you trying to get to? One of the biggest things that Mark Victor Hansen did for me is the day I met him, he challenged me to set a hundred and one goals, right? And I hadn't really done that exercise before, and just going through that process about who I wanted to be, where I wanted to travel, who I wanted to partner with, all the different things that I hadn't yet created a plan for, or a vision for, a vision board, if you will, What happened is, immediately, the things that I had said I wanted to achieve or accomplish, immediately started happening, because I had a plan for it or at least a desired outcome, and so when you create that intentionality around what you want, And then you've got a plan behind it and a mentor to guide you how to get there.

You'll be amazed how much faster things flow and how just it flows better for everyone involved.

Jeffrey Feldberg: It's interesting, it's your mentor, and I'm thinking about the [00:36:00] books. I just finished, actually, the audiobooks of the Aladdin Factor and Success Principles, back to back. And so, as you're saying these things, it's bringing me back to what I was reading in some of the chapters. But you're so right.

The coach, the mentor, whatever term someone would like to use, They've been down that path. They can really steer you in the right direction. It's a little bit off topic, but it's on topic, possibly even in the referral area. How would someone find the right kind of mentor? When you reached out to Mark Victor Hansen, that's a big name that's out there and some people are saying, Oh, wow, good for you, Brandon.

I don't know if I would be worthy or good enough, or I'd even want to reach out to someone like that to mentor me. So how do we find the right kind of mentor? Of

Brandon Barnum: Yeah, I think it's huge. I think you're talking about some imposter syndrome in the mindset right now, right? Because a lot of people are They get in front of their own ways. We create these obstacles that don't really exist. And that was true for Mark, right? When I first met Mark Victor Hansen on May 18, 2004, I spent the day with [00:37:00] him.

We raised enough money in that one day through two fundraising events that we did to send 1. 2 million in humanitarian aid. So that was, like, fantastic and over the top. But the following week, I went to Hawaii, I wrote 338 goals, and then I came back, and one of my goals was for Mark Victor Hansen to be my mentor, and I had to pick up the phone, and I'll tell you, Jeffrey, it was the scariest call I ever made, and I don't know why, but because I created this story and how important it was. He's sold over 600 million books now, he and Jack Canfield, so icons in the industry. I pick up that phone and I said, Mark, just wondered if you would be willing to be my mentor. And he said, yes, I had to get past the fear

And make the ask. And one of Mark's new book, and I realize your audience can't see this, but you can, is called Ask the Bridge from Your Destiny to Your Dreams.

And in that, really, that was one of the biggest lessons Mark gave to me, [00:38:00] was that if you want more, you need to ask more. And most people are afraid. So get past your fear, ask for help. If you've got somebody that has been where you want to go, enroll them as a mentor. But one of the things you need to do is add value to them.

Find out what they're passionate about. What can you align with? Is there a project that they want to achieve? Do they have a goal or an outcome that you can support them in? And if you show up, not with a hand out, but with a hand to help them achieve what they want, then you're going to get their attention in a new way.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. So much in there. So many lessons. I really appreciate you sharing that. And when you look back now and you look back at the imposter syndrome, am I good enough? What's he going to say? Can I even do it? You're smiling now, but I'm sure back in the day you were anything but smiles. So, going into this, well, there one defining moment that pushed you over the edge?

You know what? I'm just going to do it. I'm going to phone right now. I'm picking up the phone. I'm dialing. I'm in. Let's go.

Brandon Barnum: It literally was that. It was getting past [00:39:00] the fear. It was the most intimidating call I'd ever made, but yet, I knew we had this great connection on the day that I met him. He was a referral, somebody that he had known for 30 years, that I went to church with, made the introduction, so that certainly helped.

And I hired him for a fundraising event. So we had all of these things aligned, but yet that phone call was scary. And even looking back at it now, it shouldn't carry the weight because we create stories for ourselves, right? In our mind, we make up these stories about what's the other person going to think or say, or how are they going to react?

You've got to get past the fear and just ask for what you want. The universe is going to reward your bravery. Just get out there and ask more.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So much in there. Certainly a critical decision that you made back in the day, and it's the gift that keeps on giving. When you look back, Brandon, at your journey. Any other critical decision that really jumps off the page, hey, I did this [00:40:00] decision, I decided to do this, or I decided not to do this, and that really made a difference to get the raving referrals to where it is today?

Brandon Barnum: Yeah, I started Raving Referral, started writing the book back in 2012, and it took a decade to finally put in print and publish. So, it was something that I started, I had a vision for, and it just came to pass over a course of 10 years. But, what I would say is, There were a number of times, not unraving referrals, but really the platforms that I've been building where we had to pivot.

We created a company called Divorce Shield, and the goal was to help people going through divorce. And we had this whole platform that we had coded and built out, and we did 50, 000 a month in recurring revenue month one, which is a good start. So, we knew we had something there, but the feedback was That people weren't willing to integrate our DIVORCE SHIELD marketing into their personal brand because they didn't want to be seen as an ambulance chaser.

Well, we spent [00:41:00] about 18 months building this company and building this platform, but the market told us we had to pivot, right? And so what we asked them for is, what is it that you want? And what we found was, their feedback was, We want a system to manage our referrals and our partnership. And so that's what we built.

But you've got to listen to your audience. You've got to understand the need and find out what people really want and what they're willing to pay for. And sometimes it's going to force you to go away from your original vision to focus on delivering the need of the market.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And Deep Wealth Nation, I hope you're listening. That is not gold, that is platinum. As we love to say here at Deep Wealth, the market is always right. We come with our best intentions, put our best foot forward. Ultimately, though, the market is right. The marketplace knows what it knows, and sometimes it's a hard lesson for us.

Sometimes we get it right. Most of the times we don't. And to your point that overuse word that we heard, pivot, back in the day, thankfully we're past that, but yeah, we have to pivot to [00:42:00] make the change, to get out there. Before we go into wrap up mode, I'm wondering, Brandon, you've done so much, you've changed so many lives.

You've been a matchmaker in so many different ways. When you look up from a 50, 000 foot in the air overview, and use the L word, legacy. What do you want your legacy to be? We're fast forwarding now a generation, two generations, three generations of your family descendants. Your name comes up and they still know who you are, what you're about.

What does that look like for you? And

Brandon Barnum: Well, it's all about impact. It really is. And I go back to the beach. So after I met Mark Victor Hansen, I went to Hawaii and that's where I spent five days really Asking that question of what I wanted the rest of my life to look like from that place of the obituary. When your days are done, what are people saying about you?

What is the impact that you've had? And the legacy I want to leave is impact. The fact that I care so much about connecting others and really helping people to be a charity [00:43:00] champion. That's what's near and dear to my heart. I'm a Big Brother, Big Sister mentor and an ambassador for them. So that's one of the charities that I'm passionate about.

But I believe that every business owner and business professional needs to find their charity or their cause that they're passionate about and go integrate that into your business. A lot of people try and keep them separate. They don't feel like they should share about what they care about. And the reality is, you should.

The more you share what you care, the more people will care about you.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I'd say with online and these social platforms, again, on base, off base, people, customers, the community, your future community, they want to know, well, who is Brandon? What is he all about? What does he stand for? Who is he associating with, as opposed to just being Some name on a site or a picture, and it's just a bland corporate talk.

A lot of words, doesn't really mean anything. It's not memorable. Thoughts about that?

Brandon Barnum: Yeah, I think you've got to make a [00:44:00] difference and create an impact. The more you can impact people's lives and make a difference for them, the more they're going to remember you. And so, Look to manufacture that in your business. How can you create those wow experiences, not only with your clients and customers, but also with your team members?

A lot of entrepreneurs don't understand that their number one customer are their employees or their team. Those are the people that take your brand out in the marketplace. Those are the people that represent you and carry your brand forward. So, you've got to make sure that your vision, mission, values are aligned, and that everyone in your organization is aligned and carries those out into the market.

And the more that you invest in your team, the more they will help you build your brand.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so spot on, in the Deep Wealth nine step roadmap, we looked at step two, X Factors. So, an X Factor is something that a business is unique in. This is what differentiates you from the competition. Two foundational X [00:45:00] Factors. One, it's the team, and two, as an offshoot of the team, it's the business culture.

And they really feed off of each other. If you have, to your point, if you have, I don't like the word employee, if you have team members, they're happy, they enjoy the business, what you're doing, how they're treated. Well, the culture is going to reflect that. Ultimately, the customers are going to reflect that.

Customers are happy. Now, the team is happy. The culture becomes even better. So it's so intertwined, but you're so spot on. And we know in the world of M& A, some liquidity events, it's not about the customers. A company is buying your company because of the people. They want to onboard your team into their organization.

So it just goes so deep. That's a whole other episode of episodes that we can do. But speaking of episodes, before we wrap this one up. And before we go into our tradition of asking the question that I ask every single guest, I'm wondering, is there a question that I haven't asked you or a topic that we haven't covered, or even a message that you'd like to get out to Deep Wealth Nation?

Brandon Barnum: Well, we touched on [00:46:00] goal setting, but that's so important to really get crystal clear on what you want to create in your life. And, I'm going to challenge your listeners with the same challenge Mark Victor Hansen gave to me, which is go out there and write 101 goals. You'll be amazed at how quickly some of those happen.

For me, back in the day, I put on my list some things that I thought would never happen, or at least, I saw the possibility, I just had no idea how it was going to happen. I wanted to meet Bono, the lead singer from U2. Well, I met Bono backstage within six months of writing that goal down because I had that intention and I shared it with somebody that helped make it happen.

So, get clear on what it is that you want to do. I've got a list here of hundreds of different goals and things that I want to achieve, accomplish, experience, create, and so you need to have your list. And get crystal clear on exactly what you want to achieve. once you do that, then you'll find those things materialize and manifest quickly.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And Deep Wealth Nation, [00:47:00] you can't see this. Brandon brought some pages. He was just putting up in front of the camera, not just any pages of just scribble down notes. It's printed out and it's there. It's professionally done. A lot of time and effort has gone into that.

I absolutely love that. It's a terrific, really strategy takeaway for Deep Wealth Nation. Thank you for sharing that. So, Brandon, I would love to go on, I really would. We are bumping up against time, and so let me go into wrap up mode. Again, it's our honor here at the Deep Wealth Podcast, every guest I have the privilege, the honor of asking the question.

It's a fun one. Let me set this up for you. When you think of the movie Back to the Future, you have that magical DeLorean car that will take you to any point in time. So imagine now, it's tomorrow morning. Brandon, you look outside your window, not only do you see the DeLorean car curbside, the door is open, you hop on in.

You're now going to go back to Any point in your life, Brandon, as, a young child, a teenager, whatever point it would be, what are you telling your younger self in terms of life lessons or life wisdom, or hey, Brandon, do this, but don't do that? What would it sound like?

Brandon Barnum: [00:48:00] Ooh, I think it's really the power of relationships. As you're asking that question, I'm thinking about my family. I think that's where most of us go, is the impact of our family. And I was so blessed. To be self employed and to be there for all my kids, coached youth sports for 10 years, and it was the joy of my life to invest those years.

My kids, like you, I'm now empty nester totally, although my 21 year old daughter just moved back home for a year last Monday, so I'm super thrilled about that. Graduated in three years and so she's home for a bit but it's all about relationships and so I would just re emphasize that fact to my younger self and just double down on investing and building long term relationships.

Jeffrey Feldberg: terrific advice all about relationships, double down and invest in it. It's a terrific strategy, Deep Wealth Nation, pay attention to that, follow that from Brandon. He's been there, he's done that, he knows a thing or two about this area, what he's talking about. Well, [00:49:00] Brandon, congratulations. It's a wrap.

Before we officially wrap it up though, one last question for you. Somebody has a question. They want to speak with you. They want to go through the program. They want to work with your company. Where would be the best place online that someone could reach you?

Brandon Barnum: Absolutely, best place would be brandonbarnum. com there you can take the referrals for quiz that we talked about. You can actually take your bank code personality quiz as well, and there's a referral partner blueprint you can download, and you can also schedule time with me for a one on one. So everything is at brandonbarnum.

com.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Terrific. And again, Deep Wealth Nation, this is all in the show notes. It's a point and click. It doesn't get any easier. Well, Brandon, again, congratulations. It's official. This is a wrap. As we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. Thank you so much.

Brandon Barnum: Aw, amen, Jeffrey, thank you so much for having me, it was a joy and a pleasure. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: So there you have it, Deep Wealth Nation. What did you think? So with all that said and as we wrap it up, I have another question for you.

Actually, it's more of a personal favor. Did you find this [00:50:00] episode helpful? Have you found other episodes of the Deep Wealth Podcast empowering and a game changer for your journey? And if you said yes, and I really hope you did, I have a small but really meaningful way that you can actually help us out and keep these episodes coming to you.

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And as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. Thank you so much. God