270 Mac McNeil

Jeffrey Feldberg: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast where you learn how to extract your business and personal Deep Wealth.

I'm your host Jeffrey Feldberg.

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Mac McNeil has been a leader in the financial industry for 17 years and is currently the Senior Vice President of operations for the Community Reinvestment Fund USA, where he leads enterprise operations.

Mac is the author of My Great Aunt Edna book and weekly newsletter that highlights the leadership topics of Excellence, Doing things the right way, No shortcuts and accountability. He has a soon-to-be published [00:02:00] book titled My Great Aunt Edna, The Golden Girl of Leadership that illuminates the leadership philosophy that he created, along with contributions from other top business leaders.

At JP Morgan Chase, Mac, finished in the top 5% of performers in the country, and as a Pinnacle Club performer in the top 1% at Bank of America.

Mac has a Bachelor's degree in business administration from Pfeiffer University, a Master's degree in Business Administration from the University of Phoenix, and a Doctorate in Management and Organizational leadership from the University of Phoenix.

Mac spent four years in the US Army as an intelligence analyst in psychological operations, Special Operations Command and he is a Desert Storm veteran. He has served on the board of directors for Feeding America of Greater Riverside. Inspire life Skills training, the Christian Adoption Service, the Black professional group of Bank of America, the Black Organization for Leadership Development for JP Morgan Chase and the Minority Supplier Development Service

[00:03:00] He's been married for 27 years, has four children and one grandchild, and enjoys golf travel, and being the captain of his boat in his spare time.

Welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast. And while do we have an episode lined up for you, we have a thought leader, an author, someone who knows all about success. An individual who has really paid it forward by being in the services has this incredible background. You heard it in the official introduction, but I'm gonna say.

Stop it right there. Mac, welcome to the Deep Wealth. Podcast. We are so happy and delighted to have you with us. And Mac, I'm curious because there's always a story behind the story. What's your story? Mac? What got you to where you are today?

Mac McNeil: Well, first of all, Jeffrey, thank you for having me. I'm excited about being on the show. And to answer your question, the story behind the story is that the foundation of who I am, it all started in the military. Of course, there's some teachings I'll talk about. Out later with my great-Aunt Edna, but you know, the military background and what it did and instill in the spirit of excellence in me is really where it [00:04:00] all began.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so talk to us about that. I mean, going into the military, into the services, that's a big commitment. And oftentimes, and I suspect I'm gonna hear the same thing from you. Everyone's story's a little bit different, but coming out of it, it just shapes and forms an individual's life. So what, how'd you go into the service and then coming out of that, how did that impact you?

What did that change?

Mac McNeil: Yeah, so I was 16 years old when I signed up. My mother had to sign for me. I grew up in Germany. I was a military brat, so I was very familiar with the military lifestyle and I knew in, in high school I wanted to go right into it. And so I was in military intelligence. I was selected for that. Went to Fort Wchu, Arizona for the intelligence training there.

One of my first duty stations was in Korea,

and that was one of the moments for me that was life changing. And I can remember as a young 17 year old private, I was putting up a tactical operations center with a few other privates and, we were joking, goofing off, same thing that a normal 17, 18 year old would do.

But we were following the instructions of putting together the [00:05:00] talk. One of the sergeants came over and he just tore into us. And he just went at us and, I was a little. Confused again as a 17 year old, like, why is he yelling at us? We're doing what we were asked to do. And he had a session with me, a coaching session just shortly thereafter where he came over and said, do you know why I was yelling at you?

And I was confused no, I don't.

And he said it's not what you were doing. You were doing what we you to do. You're following the

instructions that's given. But it was how you were doing, it

was a problem. And so he explained the spirit of excellence to me and how to approach work and everything that you do.

So I can very vividly remember the next time that we went to the field and we had to set up a talk, how we approached it, the same group of guys. But it was a totally different approach the spirit of excellence and that just stayed with me forever. And it's still something that I teach the teams that I lead today.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Wow. Talk about a game changer. How such a defining moment in that one instance just forever change your trajectory and your destiny. That's incredible.

Mac McNeil: Yeah. Yeah, most definitely.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And for our [00:06:00] readers, by the way, in the show notes, we have a link to Mac Book, My Great Aunt Edna and the Edna, if you're wondering, excellence, doing things the right way, no shortcuts and accountability.

And again, we'll have them in the show notes. You can click on that. You can read the book, The Golden Girl of Leadership. I love all these acronyms and these analogies that you're giving with that. So Mac, let's talk about that from leadership and wow, what a time. To be talking about leadership because I don't know about you.

You can tell me if I'm on base or off base, but it seems like today more than ever, and don't get me on my social soapbox about social media and all the things going on with that. We need leadership more than we ever have today. Would love your thoughts on that. Where are you on that?

Mac McNeil: So, first of all, I'm going to agree with

you,

that this world is full of followers and it's easy to see on social media to the point that you're making right now. Like, you know, A thought can be thrown out there and then it's almost like ants, ants to a, a piece of food. People just follow

and sometimes they don't even know why they're following.

They're just following. That's what they're used to. So I agree with you that leadership is [00:07:00] absolutely necessary. But going back to my great Aunt Edna and how that came to be,

I was a bank executive with Bank of America in Southern California. And someone asked me like what's made you successful as a leader?

You've been a leader with Chase and now Bank of America. And I hadn't answered that question before. And

I just rattled. I said, excellence, doing things the right way, no shortcuts and accountability. And one of my team members said, Hey, that spells Edna. And I was like, oh, that's pretty cool. I have a great-Aunt Edna, she was a twin of my grandmother.

And my team just personified it and it became a thing. It became the culture of how we led I would go into the break rooms. I had 60 financial centers under me at the time, and I'd go into, and, the break rooms for visits, and I'd see a picture of my great-Aunt Edna and the acronym, you know, they just started having fun with it and it became a thing for Bank of America that's followed me throughout my career now, and it's developed into this leadership platform.

And now the book that you just mentioned.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Wow, that's incredible. And again, for the listeners, you heard it in the introduction. I mean, Mac, you are the pinnacle of success. As I was reading through your bio, I mean the top 1% [00:08:00] here and the top y percent there and on and on it goes. So is it the Edna principles? Is that what was guiding you to help you achieve your success, that you're now taking that into this platform and paying that forward?

Mac McNeil: Yeah. So I would say that's a huge part of it. I've always been driven, and I've been very fortunate to be honest with you, like when I started and, you know, you talk about all these accolades, like I didn't go into it for these accolades the accolades Just kind of happened,

but, the culture of my great-Aunt Edna and the spirit of excellence and how we approach things definitely has played a part in

it.

And I understand that it grows beyond me, once I can infiltrate this culture into the leaders that report to me and then to their teams, you know, and just how we do things It's definitely played a part in my level of success. But I also have to give my mother some credit to this.

My mother has told me things and just like any other son, you listen to some things, sometimes you don't. And she said some things to me that initially I didn't listen to,

She'd gimme a bit of a wisdom. She's the first one to tell me, Hey, you should become a banker. And I'm thinking, no, the hell I shouldn't.

That was my [00:09:00] first thought. Like, that doesn't even fit into my personality. But she was right multiple times in my life when I look back on it. So I have to give some of the credit to my mother and her guidance and direction and just always instilling in the drive in me to be successful.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Well, it sounds like you had some terrific role models and you actually listened, which more credit to you for doing that? Oftentimes we don't listen. And speaking of listening, Mac, I'm really thinking of a couple of scenarios when it comes to leadership. And so on the one hand, I'm thinking of someone in the Deep Wealth community who says, you know Jeffrey, I'm relatively successful.

I've been in business for a while. We're making a difference out there. Yeah, I've been in the trenches. I have the battle scars to prove it. I'm pretty good when it comes to leadership and perhaps that individual is, but Mac, I'm wondering, when you begin to work with leaders in different industries, companies, different situations, are you seeing some common areas, maybe blind spots, that we're just not aware of that across different industries or businesses?

It's all one and [00:10:00] the same and are there some things that you can share with us of, Hey, maybe you should be doing this, but you don't know you should be doing this when it comes to leadership to take your game to the next level.

Mac McNeil: Yeah, so a couple things, and I have spoken to several leaders in several industries and starting out with the commonalities. It's people,

Everyone, when you talk about leadership, doesn't Macer the industry, whether you're, business owner, it's all about people and how you interact with the people.

And I've heard various different theories and philosophies and how you approach leadership with people, but it's that connectivity and the ability to build relationships with people. That's definitely common. of the differences I think is data.

How you utilize data, and I actually lead enterprise operations right now, and that's part of my team.

But I see different leaders taking data as being like the guide.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Mm-hmm.

Mac McNeil: they should run their organization or their company. And I see other leaders using data as a support, but people being the primary focus on how they run their organizations and the influencing and the inspiration, those kind of things.

So those are some of the differences. I wouldn't [00:11:00] say that one is actually better than the other because again, it depends on the situations and situations vary. But those are some of the commonalities and differences. But when you think about. Success overall, the way that I see it, not only in the teams that I've led, but people that I speak to that are very successful overall.

What they have been able to do is to take what is in them, whatever that is, that vision that is in them, and I call it creating mini mes.

Being able to replicate you because you can have the greatest idea, the greatest plan, the greatest strategy, but if you can't replicate that in the people that are actually going to run with it, you know the other leaders in your team, it doesn't Macer.

So you have to be able to create what I call mini mes to be successful overall.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And it's interesting as you're talking about this, it's actually very timely. So when we have information systems data that we can use either as a resource or we're relying on that, I would love your insights because society is going through a massive change, whether we [00:12:00] realize it or not. With artificial intelligence, we've just begun to warm up.

We're saying here at Deep Wealth, we're starting the golden era of AI what AI is 10 years from now We'll probably look back at today and say, that wasn't even ai. You guys were just warming up. It wasn't even half of what it could do today. But how does AI now fit into this equation with what you're seeing and what insights would you share with us?

Mac McNeil: Yeah. So I see AI as one evolution, like it's happening. There's some people that are saying like, should we or shouldn't we? I think that's the wrong question. It's happening.

And I use an analogy or parallelism of the first. Or the last guy to design the horse and buggy

probably made the best horse and buggy in the history of the world because he had time on his side, but nobody knows his name.

And the reason why no one knows his name is because he shunned evolution

automobile was happening. He continued to make horse and buggies. We all know Ford. We don't know him. So that's the way I see about, you know, when I think about ai.

It's happening. So it's not, should I implement this into my organization or should I think about how this is going to [00:13:00] impact me in my personal life?

I think the first step is just accepting that it is, it's coming. But to think about I. 10 years from now and some of the things we need to consider now. One, everyone talks about the ethics

of ai. Hey, it could be telling the a falsehood, it's not real.

Those kind of things. I just had this conversation internally in my own organization and the question I posted them was, we have the same problems with humans right

Jeffrey Feldberg: Mm-hmm.

Mac McNeil: And that answer is yes, but because it's something new, we wanna make it different. Or, kind of segment that out. But it's the exact same problems that we experience with humans now.

It's just done in a virtual world. So again, take the same principles that we think through and utilize with, humans doing work today and apply that to, AI doing some of that work today for us, maybe faster than, traditional, those kind of things. But I don't think it's anything that's going to drastically change the human experience at its core of what the human experience is. It'll [00:14:00] change how we work, but not necessarily the human experience of what we're trying to ultimately accomplish.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And Mac, I hear you on that. What I'm wondering though, will it change the leadership experience and what we need to be as a leader? Any changes there?

Mac McNeil: Again, I don't think so, and I could be wrong. I'd love to have this debate with multiple people and it's because leadership is all about inspiration and people going back to the point that I made earlier, that is leadership. It's. Being able to inspire people to do work that maybe they didn't think they were capable of doing or they didn't know that they were passionate about, it's going to be the same thing in a virtual reality.

You're still gonna have to inspire. You're still gonna have to, drive and maneuver and bad metaphor and use here, but, herd cattle.

It's going to be the same thing. It's just in a virtual sense. So I really don't think the core concept of leadership is changing. If we think about leaders, I'll go back to, Genesis in the Bible.

They

had the exact same problems we had today.

It's [00:15:00] people, it doesn't Macer if, you know we have a stick in a rock, we're hitting

or we're in a virtual reality, it's still people leadership.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I hear you on that end. I really appreciate you just being so open and transparent with that. So then the takeaway is, okay, perhaps the situation will change. Maybe we'll stop doing some things. Maybe we'll do some things quicker, better, faster, because we have AI behind that. But from a leadership perspective, from the human experience, Keep on doing what we should be doing as leaders doing the right thing.

And so let me ask you this, and perhaps you're gonna say, Jeffrey, well that's really an individual question. It all depends on the person and the business and the industry generally speaking back of the envelope, what would you consider a truly effective leader in terms of the top one or two characteristics?

Mac McNeil: I'd say the top characteristic. Is the ability to make other leaders. There are two people that I absolutely admire,

attempt to emulate. Not there yet.[00:16:00] But when I think about leadership, the total concept one is Jamie Diamond. And you know, I've had the opportunity to interact with him a couple times back when I was with JP Morgan Chase.

And the other is Bill Belichick.

And the reason why I look at these guys, it's not necessarily , the success that their organizations have had, which is, both of them have had great success in their own individual organizations. But when you think about the leaders that they have created

from within that organization and strategically helped together the places, I mean, there's Charlie Sharper Wells Fargo right now.

There's Ryan McInerney at visa, the c e o and president of Visa. There's the Sanda Duckett, who's the CEO of PRA and I can keep

going. All of them. Came from the leadership of Jamie Diamond who've helped develop them into the leaders that they are and get into the roles that they're in that impact the industry and not just the organization.

You can think of the same thing with Bill Belichick and what he's done with all the assistant coaches that he takes pride in playing against now that he helped develop into new leaders. And so I think that's the primary characteristic of a great [00:17:00] leader to me, is someone else who can make leaders just as great as you and then it's not a threat to you.

That you're creating leaders that are at your level.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely. And for our listeners, are you picking up on that with what Mac is saying? Because as I say here, not all that often, but from time to time, and I'm gonna say it right now, Mac. What you're saying is not gold, it's platinum, and I'll put my own take on it. Our ability to essentially at least have the option.

We can fire ourselves out of a position because we've created our successor through mentoring and training. Or we stay in that position and we put them in other parts of the organization or they move on. But for us and at , Deep Wealth, we call it the X-Factor Step two, when it comes to your culture, which is an X-Factor, that increases your growth.

That increases if you have a liquidity event, your enterprise value. What if you're known as a company like Amazon and Jeff Bezos? He's known as a company that he created the leaders, to your point, that are now in all these other companies creating their own market disruptions and now Amazon. From a [00:18:00] leadership level becomes a desirable place to be at because you'll get the training that will take you further and will take you other places that you never could have dreamed of.

So I love your insights there and the takeaway for all of our business owners and all the people in the Deep Wealth community, does your business run without you? And for most of you, you're saying no. Come on, be honest. I don't wanna hear Jeffrey and Mac, well. Let me explain. Or well, kind of Or, but, or No, it doesn't.

Yes or no. Yes it does. No it doesn't. And Mac here is saying, Hey, leadership, that's the way to go. Find your successor, train them and get that going. And so Mac, when it comes to mentorship, which is such a huge part of being a founder or an entrepreneur, or just really anyone in business, whether you're a hired gun on the corporate level or you're the founder, how do we mentor people the right way?

Mac McNeil: Yeah, so I think mental tr starts with and, and you'll hear this common theme throughout all my answers, but it starts with relationship. You can mentor someone just from a knowledge base and then, you know, a knowledge transfer. You know, I've been doing this for a while and I'll just give you some of the information that I know.

And then, they're off and running. That's not really [00:19:00] mentorship the way that I see it.

Mentorship is full relationship, meaning I know you and I allow you to know me, and sometimes mentors have a wall up. We think that it's a one way conversation, like I'm only here. To help you. Right?

But a true mentorship relationship is we get to know each other. And I'm thinking about one person in particular in my own life Dr. Claude Williams, where this guy went to Harvard and, he's a college professor, so on and so forth. But our entire relationship has been both him telling me, this is what you need to do in business and.

Talking football and life and marriage and so on and so forth, because that's true mentorship. Like when you know me and I know you,

now I can tell you some things that I understand what makes you tick, right? I can tell you some things that'll help project you further than just the industry knowledge base that I can transfer.

So I think that's true mentorship, and it doesn't happen all the time. Sometimes it's from time limitations or just the frequency of the communication between mentors that, kind of. Puts that barrier there, but [00:20:00] when you get to that point where there's a true relationship between the mentor and the mentee, and you transfer more than just industry knowledge, that drives full impact.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Hey Mac, let me ask you this, for a listener who's saying, mentorship, yes, Mac, I'm fully bought into that, but unfortunately in my company there's really no one here to mentor me or no one's willing to mentor me. So when it comes to, number one, finding a mentor and then reaching out to that mentor, once you've identified that mentor to actually ask, Hey, can you mentor me?

Can I become your mentee? Any suggestions or strategies for us?

Mac McNeil: Yeah, so, I've had to do it myself before and I've had people reach out to me. Exactly what you're just saying. Like, Hey, I'm looking for a mentor. I don't have anyone internally. And for those who can't see, I'm a black male and for black males in corporate America, you know, we have very limited number of other black males that we can reach out to, to ask questions like, how did you maneuver these relationships and situations.

But I think going back to your question, it's. Asking yourself as a mentee [00:21:00] who's looking for a mentor? Who do I want to be

Jeffrey Feldberg: Sure.

Mac McNeil: like, starting with that? Who do I want to be? And then find someone who actually is that,

and it doesn't have to be someone within your organization, but find out, do a little research, a little due diligence, some Google searches, some cyberstalking, all of that weird stuff right there.

But then, find out, you know who that person is and reach out. You're gonna get some nos. I've received some nos myself when I've reached out to a couple people saying, Hey, this is, you know who I am, this is what I want to do. I see that you've done that. And they're like, no, I don't have the time.

Or they don't respond at all. You're gonna get some nos, but eventually that one yes. Is the one that you're supposed to be with anyway, right? But keep asking until you get there.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And I suppose that the journey that's really part of molding and sculpting you as a leader, you're getting those nos, there's a few bumps in the road, but you keep on moving forward and you land where eventually you're going to land. And I wanted to ask you, I mean, as I was going through the book and openly Mac every one of the [00:22:00] chapters, and I love how you really went into find detail for the different points.

Each one of those points could easily be an episode on the Deep Wealth Podcast. So I have to limit myself here and it's hard restraining, but there's one thing that caught my attention. It was in chapter three, doing things the right way. And one thing that you spoke about, I'd love for you to share with the readers because we don't really hear that much about that.

And it's all about the law of diminishing returns. So for the listeners out there, what's going on? What do you want them to know in the Deep Wealth community? Doing things the right way, but hey, be weary of the law of diminishing returns because oftentimes something's going well, Hey, I'm just gonna do more of it.

If I do more of it, it's gonna be better. And I'll just, double up, triple up, quadruple up and more is better. So what should we know about that?

Mac McNeil: Great question. You're actually the first one to ask me that on a podcast. Some, people usually go to some of the other ones. So I like the fact that you came to this one about the law of diminishing returns. And for those you're not familiar with the concept, it's an economic concept.

It basically says, if you continue to add a unit and [00:23:00] no, no other variables change,

you know, You'll see that curve start to go up. But eventually you reach a point where if you continue to add that exact same unit the return of what you're adding, it will start to diminish.

And you don't understand why, because you haven't changed any other variables.

But going back to doing things the right way. So first I wanna say that that's completely different from doing the right things. Like that's step one, like figuring out what to do, what are the right things to do. But once you figure out what the right things is to do, and you agree upon that as a unit, as a team, you start to move forward.

The consistency of doing that thing the right way is extremely important because that's how you see. When, controls or whatever else you put in place are not working right. So that's how you have the constant improvement in the optimization. But getting back to the law of diminishing returns you have to constantly assess is this actually working long term or is this something that is just a short term fix and I need to adjust?

And most leaders don't do that. We find something that's working[00:24:00] and we've heard this before, once you find something that's working, stick to

it, that's actually not true. You stick to it for a while until. Paradigms change situations, change, variables change, which inevitably on this earth will happen.

So you constantly have to assess like, am I doing the right thing now or do I need to do something else? And if you don't do that, eventually, You're gonna start to see decreases in your production and many leaders are confused. Hey, I was doing this in, 1995 and it worked all the way up until 2005, and all of a sudden it didn't work

right.

I started to lose money. And you don't understand why, because that was your success go-to, but your success go-to is going to change. And as a leader, you need to understand that and plan and prepare for that. going to change.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So insightful. Hey, the only thing constant both in business and life is change itself. That's it. else is constant, but change a little bit of,[00:25:00] an oxymoron there going on, but it really is true. And then, so from that side with the law of diminishing returns, then I gotta tell you, when you talk about in chapter four the, the no shortcuts, and you're going into that, It reminded me of another part of the services from the US Navy Seals, and they have that famous saying, and what they're saying is, Hey, slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

And as I was reading through what you're writing, I'm like, perfect. Because particularly today with social media, circling back to what we're talking about earlier, We're supposed to get it right the first time. I mean, look at everyone's perfect life and how everything just works out. And you know, we're seeing one snapshot from probably countless snapshots of gazillion.

So again, for the listeners in the Deep Wealth community, what do you want them to know about, Hey, there are no shortcuts. You know, Baby, don't rush. If I can use your words from from the book, what's going on with that?

Mac McNeil: Yeah. So first of all, there are shortcuts, but don't take them there are always ways [00:26:00] to do things, you know, a little bit faster and some people get caught up in fast is good.

And thinking that I. Time, value of money, all that other stuff. So let's just take a shortcut and make it happen right now.

But getting back to the overall point of not taking shortcuts. What it does is it actually limits you as a leader from long-term sustained excellence. And the reason why is because you need, as a leader, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

You need all of those experiences as a leader to have sustained success over a long period of time. shortcut will inevitably shortcut you. Because again, it goes back to the fact that. I might have success for 10 years, but then, another 10 years don't have success. But I'll tell a story real quick, but I've done this before as a leader where, and this is a version of a shortcut where you step into a role that a previous leader had

They were highly successful.

And you step into it and it's already a blueprint that's laid out as to how [00:27:00] they did this, how they accomplished it. And you step in and you say, okay, well let's just do the exact same thing. And, but the results aren't the same leader. That's what happened to me. And I was confused, like, why didn't I have the exact same results that this previous leader had?

And the reason why I didn't is because that blueprint was not made for me.

It was made for that leader. So I learned that I have to go in and I have to assess the situation.

I have to learn my people. I have to know my people. I have to understand my industry. I have to understand the potential changes that are gonna happen, meaning I can't take shortcuts.

I have to lay this out myself. And then eventually get to the point where I have a blueprint that works for me.

It's not going to work in the exact same way, but there are several leaders who do that. They just jump into a situation and it's a shortcut. Let's

just do the same thing this other guy did because he was highly successful. Doesn't work.

Jeffrey Feldberg: What a terrific insight. Again, Mac, you're just spinning out these webs of platinum for us just to walk away with the strategies and [00:28:00] really taking what you're saying, and I'm thinking of our listeners when we're bringing in a new leader or as our company is growing and expanding, to your point.

Maybe what worked for someone who's now in another position or maybe they moved on, that's not going to work for either ourselves if we're stepping into that or someone else that we're bringing into the role. And I'm really hearing you say, Hey, assess, make it your own. And really don't look in the rear of your mirror.

Just do what your play to your strengths do what's good for you, your strengths, your capabilities. would I be on base with that?

Mac McNeil: Yes sir. Yeah, absolutely.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so let me ask you this and for, again, for the listeners, please go to the show notes, click on the link and get the book and go through the book. But big picture wise, you know, we have some interesting times going on in the economy and you know, at Deep Wealth we don't like to really focus on that because we go through cycles and we're listening to episodes and what's a boom cycle today?

Tomorrow may not be and vice versa. But generally speaking, we have the rise of ai. We are coming out of the [00:29:00] pandemic. Has anything changed on the leadership side that we should be considering now as we look forward? Or is it really one and the same of just being adaptable and really being open to changes in the marketplace and within the industries?

What do you think is going on there?

Mac McNeil: Yeah, so there are changes that were impacted by COVID and, a couple of things that we're dealing with right now. And I think the biggest thing right now is leading in a remote environment.

And you talked about AI, and AI will play a part in that as well, but that has, Struggle.

A lot of leaders have struggled with that. And to be honest, some leaders that I admire I can see them struggling from afar because they're so used to managing an environment where people are in one location primarily.

And so it's easy to manage when you think about time and efficiency, cost, expenses, those kind of things.

It's easier to manage when you know where people are going to be and for the most part what they're going to be doing. But in this environment, it's absolutely a paradigm shift that's necessary.

I have employees all over the world right now. [00:30:00] Some of 'em are contractors that work for us in other ways, but not knowing is a paradigm shift that leaders have to adjust to,

and you have to develop another level of trust.

So, if I trust that my employees are operating within a spirit of excellence, like I have pushed that, culture of on Aetna out and they're operating spirit of excellence, and I try to call them at 2:00 PM.

And they're not answering. At 2:00 PM previously, I would've said, pre covid what are the hell are they doing?

Like it's two o'clock. Where are they, what are they doing? But now I have to trust that person still has that same level of spirit of excellence within them. And maybe at two o'clock they're picking up their kids right now because things are different, right?

It's a remote work environment. Their, even their own personal life is kind of integrated into their day now, which used to be their workday, but now it's just their day.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Mm-hmm.

Mac McNeil: But I'm trusting that maybe at eight or nine o'clock when that kid has been put to sleep, they get back on and they do what they need it to do

because they're operating within a spirit of excellence. And I have to trust[00:31:00] that's still happening as a leader.

Like I can't just automatically assume that this person is now lazy because I can't get them at two o'clock, and I used to be able to get them at two o'clock every single time.

But now they're working at nine or 10 o'clock, but they're still working within the spirit of excellence. So that adaptation as a leader, that trust level and again, in understanding that, knowing the person, going back to the relationship, knowing the person that you know, so and so is still going to operate within the spirit of excellence and deliver the deliverable as expected.

Jeffrey Feldberg: That's interesting Mac, and as you're talking through that, what's running through my mind is really looking inward. So as leaders, and you're right, it's a whole different world out there with remote work. And not everyone but some employees, they actually prefer that. And if you want to keep them, if the world class talent, then that's where you're gonna have to step up to.

And society has changed with that. And so it's a terrific question for all of us as leaders to ask, okay, I don't trust this person. Why is it me? Am I going [00:32:00] on the old school way that a butt in the seat? Then I know that they're doing something when maybe they're on social media all day, but, oh, I feel better because I see someone in the seat.

They're in the office or out of sight, out of mind. So is it me that I'm not trusting myself and how I'm looking at the world, or I'm really not trusting? That individual, that team member for a c and d and I suppose if it's the latter, well then perhaps there's a conversation that needs to be had and maybe there isn't a fit.

But I love how you're bringing that to the forefront of, hey, okay, trust, you have to have trust with the team that maybe it's not gonna be on our expected time. You know, At 2:00 PM maybe it'll be 8:00 PM but it'll get done and it'll get done with the quality and the turnaround that we're looking for.

Would I be correct with that?

Mac McNeil: No, that's perfect. That's exactly it. it's that level of trust that needs to adjust. And you made a point earlier I wanted to go back to, and it's a mantra that I've been leading with forever, that if you need to be present to lead, you're not a good leader.

it goes back to this same thing that we're talking about right now.

Like If my [00:33:00] employee needs to be in an office for me to trust them. I'm not a good leader and maybe I don't know them as well as I think I do.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Wow. Wow. Mac that's huge. That's huge with that. And I mean, talk about putting yourself under the microscope and taking accountability for that. you know, the old saying when I'm pointing a finger and you can see it, but for our listeners, I'm pointing a finger at Mac, but I have all my other fingers pointing back at me, and so, so that really says it all.

So, Mac, you've begun to give us really the underpinnings of your strategies and your tactics. Can you talk to us at a high level about your platform?

Mac McNeil: Yeah, so my Great Aunt Edna the leadership platform, again, it started internally in the corporations that I've been a leader in.

Eventually it turned into a newsletter somebody asked me to write,

and, the newsletter grew started to get great attention and it turned into a book.

the book, is taken off selling all over the world right now. I'm very thankful for

that.

Speaking engagements, are coming up, but it's become again, this platform [00:34:00] that it's kind of fun and cute because of the name. as soon as people hear the name, they're curious about it.

Migrate on Edna leadership platform. What the hell is that? So it's kind of fun at the same time,

Once. People actually implemented into their organizations or their teams and they start to see that impact. that's what's exciting for me. I'm starting to get some reports already

from people who you know, one guy was telling me that, during his lunch breaks, he would listen to the audio book.

And then he started to implement this into his team and started to see some of the results, the spirit of excellence and not taking shortcuts and those kind of things. And that's exciting for me. Long-term, that's what I'd love to do is just inspire leaders, challenge them to think differently or maybe even rethink some things because, maybe some things that they haven't thought about in a while that's reintroduced to like, oh yeah, I haven't thought about that in a while, but It's fun and exciting and hopefully, you know, it continues and grows into other things that I don't even contemplate at this time.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Well, you know, back to what we were saying earlier, the only thing that's constant is change itself. So we can expect that [00:35:00] it'll continue to grow and go in different areas and take you into those areas. Well, Mac, let me ask you this. As we begin to wrap up I really do have the privilege and the honor for every guest to ask them this wrap up question, so let me set it up for you.

It's a lot of fun when you think of the movie Back to the Future. You have that magical DeLorean car that will take you to any point in time. And Mac, I want you to imagine is now tomorrow morning. And here's the fun part, you look outside your window. Not only is the DeLorean car there curbside, the door is open, it's waiting for you to hop on in.

So you hop in and you can now go to any point in your life, Mac as a young child, as a teenager, whatever point in time that would be. What would you tell your younger self for lessons learned or life wisdom or, Hey Mac, do this, but don't do that. What would that sound like?

Mac McNeil: That is such a great question. Point in time in my life, I would go probably into 1993.

And the reason why I choose 1993 is I got [00:36:00] outta the Army in 1992.

I have some special ops, military intelligence, and I get out and civilian world and nobody wants to hire me. And I felt deflated, defeated

and. You know, It was one of those questions as to, you know, why did I even Did that four years of experience in war and all that, did it Macer?

Did I have value? You know, I was questioning myself quite a bit. And I wasted years. I really did.

You know, I didn't go into college until 1997.

You know, I wasted four years of feeling sorry for myself and you know, I'd go back to that time. And tell myself to remember what I learned that day that I just talked about with Sergeant Ober Leitner around the spirit of excellence. Because for those four years I was not operating or thinking or caring about the spirit of excellence.

It was all self-pity. And I see that as four years wasted, where I could actually have accomplished even more than I've accomplished that's far in my life. I would love to have that conversation in 93 with Mac McNeil and, get your ass in gear. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and move [00:37:00] forward.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And Mac with the younger Mac in 1993, who would say Spirit of excellence? What are you talking about? I don't know what the heck that means. What would you say to

Mac McNeil: Oh, he knew about it. Yeah, he learned about it in, yeah, he learned about it in 1989 on a mountain in Korea. But it was almost forgotten for that,

those four years, it was a forgotten four years. And the light bulb went off in 97 and, moved forward from there, but four years wasted.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Wonderful. Well, you know what that said though, it was, looking back, it sounds like that was just your turning point, that the phoenix rising from the ashes to use that analogy and, and here you are today, the better for it. Well, Mac, before we wrap this up, let me ask you this and I mentioned for our listeners in the show notes, we'll have all your information.

For a listener who's saying, wow, okay, got the book. Mac, I really like what you're doing. I wanna learn more about your platform. I have a few questions for you. Want to become a client or just see what's going on. Where's the best place online that someone can reach you?

Mac McNeil: Yeah, the best place online is LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn quite a bit, so [00:38:00] LinkedIn. My profile is Mac McNeil, m a c, McNeil. There's also my great Aunt Edna on LinkedIn. I have a page there. You can email me at info my great aunt edna.com. I'm on all the social platforms and it's migrate on Edna, so you can reach me in multiple ways to either just debate.

I love debating and having discussions about leadership and philosophy and psychology, all of that good stuff. So definitely reach out.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Terrific. And again, for our listeners, it doesn't get any easier. It's in the show notes. It's a point and click check out the book. My great aunt Ed and I, you can check out the all the social platforms that Mac is on. Email him, ask him the questions, take him up on his offer. That's what I love about the Deep Wealth community.

We have all these subject Macer experts, these thought leaders, authors, and leaders in general saying, Hey, reach out to me. Ask me a question, would love to help. So on that note, maca heartfelt, thank you for your insights, your wisdom, and as we say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you stay healthy and safe.

Thank you so much.

Mac McNeil: Thank you, Jeffrey. Thank [00:39:00] you for having me, sir.

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Jeffrey Feldberg: Are you leaving millions on the table?

Please visit www.deepwealth.com/success to learn more.

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