491 Mark Kohler

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Introduction to Mark J Kohler

Jeffrey Feldberg: What if mastering the legal and tax side of business wasn't a luxury, but the foundation of lasting Wealth? Mark J Kohler is one of those few people who lives exactly at the intersection of law, finance, and practical advice from Main Street business owners. He's a CPA and a practicing attorney whose specialty is helping entrepreneurs, real estate investors, and small business owners, not just survive taxes and regulations, but use them as tools to build and protect their wealth.

He's written multiple bestselling books, host podcasts that simplify what most find confusing, and speaks regularly about how to navigate everything from crypto taxes to asset protection, estate planning and retirement. With over two decades of experience and more than 10,000 legal and tax consultations under his belt, Mark has built his career showing what's usually hidden, the strategies that Wall Street doesn't want you to know. The legal nuances that compound silently and the financial [00:01:00] decisions people wish they'd made years sooner.

This is a conversation about strategy that matters, clarity and complexity, and knowing when to lean into what most business owners avoid, because that's often where exponential growth hides.

Deep Wealth Mastery Program

Jeffrey Feldberg: And before we hop into the podcast, a quick word from our sponsor, Deep Wealth and the Deep Wealth Mastery Program. We have William, a graduate of Deep Both Mastery, and he says, I didn't have the time for Deep Both Mastery, but I made the time and I'm glad I did.

What I learned goes far beyond any other executive program or coach I've ever experienced. Or how about Bruce? Bruce says, before Deep Wealth Mastery, the challenge I had with most business programs, coaches, or blogs was that they were one dimensional. Through Deep Wealth Mastery, I'm part of a richer community of other successful business owners.

The idea shared forever changed the trajectory of the business and best of all, the experience was fun. And we'll round things out with Stacey. 

Stacey said, I wish I had access to the Deep Wealth Mastery before my liquidity event, as it would have been extremely [00:02:00] helpful. Deep Wealth Mastery exceeded my expectations in terms of content and quality.

And you know what, my Deep Wealth Nation, why they're saying this is because Deep Wealth Mastery, it's the only system based on a nine figure deal. That was my deal. And as you know, I said no to a seven figure offer, and I created a system that we now call Deep Wealth Mastery that helped myself and my business partners, welcome from a different buyer, a different offer, a nine figure exit.

So if you're interested in growing your profits, preparing for a future liquidity event, if that's two years away or 20 years away, and you want to optimize your post exit life, Deep Wealth Mastery is for you. Please email success at deepwealth. com. Again, that's success, S U C C E S S, at deepwealth. com. We'll send you all the information about Deep Wealth Mastery, otherwise known as Scale for Ultimate Sale. That's where you want to be. You want to be with other successful business owners, entrepreneurs, and founders just like you who are looking to create market disruptions.

And they want to lock in their financial freedom and have success and [00:03:00] fulfillment. 

That's the 90 day Deep Wealth Mastery Program. It has your name on it. All you need to do is take the next step. Send an email to success at deepwealth. com.

Welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast

Jeffrey Feldberg: Deep Wealth Nation welcome to another episode of the Deep Deep Wealth Podcast. Well, Deep Wealth Nation you know me, I love my rhetorical questions. Let me ask you this, are you minimizing the taxes that you're paying? Are you maximizing your estate planning? Do you have everything organized? Do you have the right advisors around you?

And if you're anything like I was, particularly early on in my entrepreneurial journey, the answer is a solid no. We're gonna change that today. We have a very special guest in the House of Deep Wealth. You heard the official introduction. We have a fellow entrepreneur, a bestselling author, a fellow podcaster, you name it, he's done it.

Mark, welcome to Deep Wealth Podcast. An absolute pleasure to have you with us. 

Mark J Kohler's Journey and Mission

Jeffrey Feldberg: There's always a story behind the story. What's your story? Mark? What got you from where you were to where you are today?

Mark J. Kohler: Thank you so much for that awesome interview. And everybody's hold it. This guy's an accountant or CPA, you can't be that excited, Jeffrey. You bring it down a [00:04:00] notch. Come on. This is, we're talking taxes. You should be miserable right now. Regrettably, that's maybe what somebody will think, but that's not the case.

My story is I have fallen in love with, I think one of the key parts of entrepreneurship, and that is the tax planning, that Wealth building, the asset protection and estate planning, bringing all those pieces together in an understandable, simple way where people can actually feel confident.

They're doing it right and they're captaining their own ship. They see it, they can believe it, and they're sick and tired and don't want it anymore. This accountant that is demeaning defeatist and doesn't bring ideas and options, lawyers that are too expensive and look for just new ways to build them.

And so many entrepreneurs are frustrated by the all of that. And so I want to blow through all that and change the dynamic. It's been my mission for the last 25 years. We got an incredible team. We think we're making [00:05:00] headway there. If there was only more marks out there that I could duplicate myself with ai, mark, I'll do more AI marks.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Sounds like a great plan. And by the way, deep Deep Wealth Nation, my goodness, mark, you've written way too many books for us to cover, but deep Deep Wealth Nation, go to the show notes and we have a link. You can check out all of Mark's books. I love some of the titles that you have on your books. But Mark, let's do this.

Common Mistakes Entrepreneurs Make

Jeffrey Feldberg: Let's pull back the curtain, because as entrepreneurs, you know how it is. It's usually glass half full. Let's take the glass half empty for just a moment. I know it's uncomfortable. We don't like doing that, but when it comes to entrepreneurs. And your areas of specialty, where are we getting it wrong? Are there certain patterns?

Is there a PATOS law, the 80 20 principle? Yeah. Jeffrey, you know what? 20% of these same mistakes that most entrepreneurs are making are creating 80% of their headaches. Where are we just not getting it as entrepreneurs that you're coming in to pick up the polices and clean it up.

Mark J. Kohler: You bet. I just thank you and I really like that question, and as you were, as I was just rambling there for a minute it, [00:06:00] it came to me as probably one of the biggest mistakes and I just alluded to it a moment ago, is the captain of your own.

And so many business owners feel confident and comfortable doing that with maybe their team members, their leadership development, their product, their service.

But I see some of the biggest mistakes with this mindset. I can't wait to find that accountant that I can just have, do everything so I don't have to worry about it. Ooh, anybody feel like I just need to find the right tax person so I don't have to think about it, or the, oh, all my legal's taken care of, so my assets are protected.

I don't have to worry about it. Okay, folks. There, you're setting yourself up for failure and I'm so sorry. I know you want that. I know you do. But the problem is no tax Advisor, there's not one of them out there that's gonna care more about your bottom line and your tax bill than you.

Now, the hurdle, oh, it's too complex.

Or it's too complicated. It's I get. Misdirection and different [00:07:00] answers everywhere I go and it's just too much. I'd rather just rely on one person and it is what it is. Well, I want to throw you a lifeline

Believe it or not, and today I'll provide examples of this.

We're gonna have fun with it. Is it tax planning does not have to be that hard. We. Sometimes have to understand where these accounts are coming from and their mindset and realize we're the captain of the ship. They aren't. They're just a mate on the ship that if you don't like what they're saying or they're saying it the wrong way, you can throw 'em overboard and get a new Advisor.

And if you take ownership of this, it's, it can be super powerful. And this is what rich people talk about. Jeffrey, you know that you go and hang out at a party rich people love to talk about their tax strategies and they get it. They're like, this is the number one cost in my life. What are you doing? Oh, I'm doing this, I'm doing that.

It can be, it's not that bad.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And do both nations. As Mark is saying this, he's really coming from the trenches. These are his titles, not my titles. I love these titles, by the way, for some of his books. Financial [00:08:00] Freedom, what Wall Street Isn't Telling You, or how about this one, what your CPA isn't telling you? Life-changing tax strategies.

I love this one. Lawyers are liars. The truth about protecting our assets and the tax and legal playbook, game changing solutions to your small business questions. So deep, both nation, this is the real deal. This is coming from the trenches. Mark has been there. He's done that as a saying goes. And so let me ask you this because I love what you're saying.

We've gotta be the captain of our own ship. There's a difference between delegation and abdication. And I've made the mistake of the latter where I've said, okay, you know what? I'm just gonna hand it off to so-and-so. I don't wanna have to look at it exactly what you're saying, mark. And my goodness, that's where the mistakes come.

And why did I do that? And we're trying to save some time. We end up creating more time, more problems, more expenses down the road for that. So what does a, a healthy business relationship look like? When we're doing the right kind of delegation, we have someone like yourself and team who are helping us on the tax side or the estate [00:09:00] planning side, or I'm having a liquidity event coming up, or I'm raising some capital and an investment.

What's a healthy relationship of? What are my responsibilities? What should I be doing? What should I not be doing from your playbook?

Mark J. Kohler: well, I think the easiest. Way to answer that is to say what an unhealthy relationship looks like, and then I'll offer some solutions if you'll allow me that opportunity. 

Tax Planning Strategies for Families

Mark J. Kohler: So let's say for example, we're here. Maybe a topic we'll talk about today is your own family office. Your own family board meeting, something every small business owner should be doing.

They're gonna have a travel experience during the holidays. Let's get our family members together that we love and listen to parents, to children, to brother, sister, spouse. We're gonna have a meeting. We're gonna take a tax write off to have this meeting. We're gonna document our minutes. We're gonna put it in our corporate book.

We're gonna have our. Own family board meeting. Huge concept. Very important for asset protection and a whole host of reasons. Okay, step one, step two, if you're supporting any family members, [00:10:00] I wanna put them on the payroll, maybe a W2 or a 10 99. So if I've got kids or family members serving on the board, giving.

Literal, legit advice and guidance, maybe quarterly or annually, and or their family members are helping with marketing to property management, to just regular, ongoing advice. It is extremely honest, ethical, legit, and typical that a business owner. Can pay, let's say an adult child, a 10 99 for helping with the business and take a tax write-off for that.

And now this kid claims that income on their tax return as a sole proprietorship takes additional tax write-offs. It pays in a lower tax bracket. And we're planning as a family, so I want to, and don't even get me started on kids under age 18, all of our kids should be getting compensated outta the business in some form or fashion.

Okay? So that's, let's say that's the concept number two. So two basic concepts. I think everybody in their heart would go, Hey, that makes sense. [00:11:00] Yeah. The Oklahoma City, you mean? Oklahoma Farm? They're paying their kids in the summer. They should be able to write that off. Oh, at New York City Deli, someone sweeping the floor after school, I should be able to pay my child.

They don't pay taxes. On the first 15 grand, I get a write off. There's still a dependent, still a tax credit. As a child, I'm, okay, cool. I should be able to do that because the list goes on and on.

By the way, everybody, it's super expensive. I apologize. I'll just tell you now, it's really expensive to get this service done where we make sure you're good with the State, give you the questions, make sure you have your board meeting.

It's $200. $200 an entity. I know it's highway robbery to have this taken care of and off your plate and the agenda. We have sample agendas. We put in all the tax provisions automatically, and you do your thing on an iPad, you have your freaking board meeting, and we take it from there. So it's the coolest thing.

Okay, what happens tomorrow? You call up your accountant. Hey Tom, Mary. I was just on Jeffrey and Mark's podcast.

It was freaking awesome, and we talked about getting our [00:12:00] kids on our payroll, whether it's a 10 99 or a W2, and I'm gonna have my board meeting. I've heard this before. I should really be compensating my kids taking a tax write off for that. Putting the money in a lower tax bracket, building their Roth IRAs, talking about covered IRAs, getting my kids on my solo 401k.

The list goes on and on. Tom and Mary have a problem they didn't recommend that you did. Also, it's even deeper than that. Last year, you should have done that on your tax return, and you didn't because Tom and Mary didn't bring it up, didn't suggest it. So they got two choices, maybe three. Number one, they can poo the idea.

That's safe. Oh, Jeffrey that's so nice. Mark Kohler is crazy. Oh, that's high risk. You can't do that. That's audit risk. Oh, maybe, but we better tone it down. And so they talk it down to protect themselves. 'cause they think, holy crap, Jeffrey might sue me or be mad at me or fire me because I didn't bring the idea.

They [00:13:00] did. Option two. Oh my gosh. Jeffrey, I've been waiting for you to take this initiative and get excited about tax planning. I love it. And yeah, maybe we should have done that in the past, what, let's turn over a new leaf. I am with you. Get your butt in here. Let's do a zoom call or come to the office.

Let's talk about tax planning. And holy crap, We know Mark Kohler, he's no one else in the country, has more YouTube videos or podcasts on tax planning and books. I love this guy. We should be doing what Mark Kohler's talking about, at least to some degree. Let's get together and plan. Thank you so much for Jeffrey calling me.

I would love to be a better tax Advisor for you. How often does number two happen?

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah, the not invented hair syndrome. There we go. And deportation. You heard it with sound effects from Mark with the sound effects of what's going on at the other end, but it's so true not to confuse simple simplicity. You've just distilled it down to the simplest of things. Yeah, we're never gonna hear that, Jeffrey.

What a terrible idea. You're gonna get an audit Uncle Sam and the IRS. And it is just a world of trouble. Just keep on doing what we're doing. You've never had an audit with us. You're not gonna get an audit. Just [00:14:00] keep that off the books and life is grand.

Mark J. Kohler: Okay. Let's go deeper next. What do I hear next? Well, mark. That's right, but oh, Tom and Mary, they've been with our family for years. They were my dad's account, my mom's accountant. They love, they're great people. They're so good. They do such a great job, really. You haven't been writing off your kids and your business and helping and support thousands and thousands of dollars of tax savings left on the table.

And they do a good job. You sure you wanna listen? Did you hear what you just said? Well, they're just, oh, I could never let them go. There are family friends. Oh my gosh. Second point. Let's put yourself in their shoes. Who are our accountants? They're the person. That in high school or college did not have a lot of friends.

They were very introvert. They were all focused on numbers and accounting. Probably the most conservative person in the school network, high school or college were the accountants not taking risk, and they're the person that [00:15:00] challenged with communication skills and conservative versus risk taking are handling the number one cost in your life.

That's the person. Could it not be a bigger conspiracy theory? It's just unbelievable. And by the way, I was that person I'd spent years of therapy. Jeffrey, you get to this point. And so, I mean, we don't need the kid playing the flute up in the band during the football game. We need the kid that was smoking weed under the bleachers.

It's let's think outside the box.

I just, both of those kids. But anyway, the point, so, folks, you're probably there going, what do I do? 

Choosing the Right Tax Advisor

Mark J. Kohler: Face the reality. 95% of the time, if you wanna start saving taxes and build Wealth and start taking control of the situation, you just have to do a little bit of learning and align yourself with a tax Advisor in that same space.

You're gonna have to fire your freaking accountant. Typically, and by the way, I don't run an accounting firm. Anymore, dude, we had a four year wait list and I stepped away three years ago to say we can't even service the clients that are starving for a good tax Advisor. So I went out and [00:16:00] started the Main Street Tax Pro network.

Over 1200 accountants I've trained in just two years. 900 quiz questions, 70 classes, weekly trainings, to be a Mark Kohler certified tax Advisor that speaks like this, that has the strategies and yeah, they're not perfect either. You're gonna interview find the right one. Young old male. Female, east coast, west coast, I don't care.

But I built an army of tax advisors that actually want to help small business owners and do tax advisory. And you may have to find a new one, but I'm gonna help you find them. That's what we're facing. That's when you say, how do I do it? That's how you do it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And Nation. Two quick takeaways here. So with what Mark is talking about, I want you to go back to the early days of your business. I know I've been there, the employees, the team members. This was the hardest thing for me, mark, the early team members that helped build my company to where we got to, sadly, 99 times OUTTA 100.

They weren't the ones that take it to the next level and its innovator die, unfortunately. And a lot of those early team members, they were loyal. They helped get us there. But they couldn't get us to where [00:17:00] we were going and gave them glowing references and they had to move on. We weren't gonna be where they're gonna realize their future anymore, and they weren't with what the company needed.

It's the same thing with our advisors. All the advisors that we have, some of them may keep pace, but others don't. And so Deep Wealth Nation really. Your accountants as an example, as one set of advisors, are they the right ones for you? Maybe they were at one time, but are they still to what Mark is saying?

And then the Second point Depot, Deep Wealth Nation, when you get the right Advisor, I mean, my goodness, we're not even two minutes into this podcast and Mark is saying, Hey, is your family on the payroll? And if not, why not? Here's all the reasons why they should be, and it's above board and you're gonna be doing this for you and that for them.

We're not even two minutes outta the gate and boom, we're already there when you have the right kind of Advisor Depot nation. That's what it goes to. That's what it means. And so, mark, when it's working with you and the team, and I love how you've now been training 1200 other accountants and growing, they've gotta go through your system.

They've gotta get your gold seal of approval. Can you walk us through your process? Okay, mark and team, here I am. What does it look like [00:18:00] timing wise? I know every business is different and, well, Jeffrey, it depends how big you are, where you're at. But generally speaking, what does it look like for your process?

What would I expect going in and then coming out of it?

Mark J. Kohler: Okay. And I think you're asking what should the business owner expect in this e evolution and process, or what should an accountant expect when I freaking take 'em through the ringer and make 'em better? Two different

Jeffrey Feldberg: Well, we, yeah, we

Mark J. Kohler: with the entrepreneur.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Let's focus on the business owner of, as a business owner. Okay. Mark, here I am. Let's go through, we're gonna roll back the curtain. Walk me through your secret sauce and how are you gonna help me? So 

Mark J. Kohler: oh, you bet.

Jeffrey Feldberg: and outcome wise?

What does that mean?

Mark J. Kohler: And I know there's an accountant listening here, and I don't mean to offend you. I don't, I was, I literally had a a nervous breakdown panic attack on one October 15th, because I know how hard the compliance, system is, and the deadlines and tax season, the up and down of payroll and cash flow and clients that don't respect you.

And we give away so much time and services. We have so many things we've done [00:19:00] wrong. And I had my wake up call about five to six years ago and started changing my firm to advisory and had to leave two partners that I still love them and were good friends, but they didn't catch that vision. Wanted to stay in that compliance realm and that's all their choice.

But I knew there was a better way and there is a better way for, so if you're out there listening and you're a CPA, an enrolled agent, an investment Advisor, or a tax lawyer, and you're like, I wanna be a part of the tribe and community where like we can all get on the same damn page and network together and have weekly continuing education, that makes freaking sense. Check it out@mainstreettaxpros.com. Get a discovery call and check it out. Okay? 

Mark Kohler's Comprehensive Tax Planning Process

Mark J. Kohler: Now for entrepreneurs out there, here's the perfect setup. You have this reality check of, I need to do better. I need a second opinion. At the very least, I want to tackle my tax and legal planning constructively.

There's something here. I like what Mark Kohler's saying. Holy crap, this is the time to do it. And by the way, when I say time to do it, the most critical time for tax planning is in the fall. [00:20:00] Come January 1st. Game over. Buzzers over, I'm golfing on a April 15th.

I don't give a crap. The tax planning happens by December 31st for 95% of all the strategies and then your host. So you can't look in a rear view mirror. I'm looking out the front windshield. The rear view mirror is smaller for a reason. So we are gonna look forward. What I would love you to do is start with a comprehensive consult, like the deep dive, one of my tax lawyers, I've got 12 different tax lawyers meeting with clients every day we're, we continue to expand at a 30% clip every year, and this, you could spend under two grand on this, just getting a comprehensive look of all my entities, my tax returns, my estate plan, all my assets, my debt, my investments, just to look is it structured properly?

We call it the trifecta. And so this trifecta is a visual diagram. We. Build. It's beautiful. You can Google trifecta Mark Kohler, and you're gonna see YouTube videos and I'll buy books. I'll go through it. Get my tax and legal playbook, one of my favorite books that I've written. Second edition after the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

So [00:21:00] check that out and you're gonna get a trifecta and a game plan. That's step one. Then we're gonna say, is your accountant on board? Do you have an accountant you love, a tax strategist that's willing to hear this? Listen, learn and work together 80% of the time. No. Okay. Here's a network and I make no money off of whatever you pay.

Those accountants in my network, this isn't a network for me to make more money. They pay me to get trained so they can build their own business. And so if you can go to their network and we'll help choose one a, an Advisor that fits your model needs. Whether you're in the import, export and crypto, you're in real estate, you're in manufacturing, farming, ranching whatever your industry is, it's all the same.

Concept from tax planning. And then I'm gonna take you through our top 10 tax strategies in that initial consult. Go through your trifecta, hand it off with you, marry you with a tax Advisor that you of your choice or not. And then I know, buckle up. Everybody have regular [00:22:00] meetings. I know it sounds crazy, where at least quarterly you're meeting with your tax Advisor and annually with the tax lawyer, we're like the orthodontist and then we're gonna marry you with the dentist and then we're gonna meet regularly and as a team, holy crap, have my estate plan, my asset protection and my tax planning, financial investing.

All four wrapped into a visual representation of my American dream. And then we get to work and you're a part of the conversation and you freaking understand it and you love your team members, and your team members care about you. And no one's in there like your typical accountant going, eh, you can't do this and watch out for that because it was your idea and not theirs.

That doesn't happen in our meetings.

Jeffrey Feldberg: In Deep Wealth Nation, as Mark is talking about this, he's walking you through a system. I want you to check out his book. He just referenced it, the Tax and Legal Playbook Game Changing Solutions to Your Small Business Questions. What I loved about that, right in the beginning, mark, you're taking nothing for granted and you're asking the reader.

You even have the right kind of company set up. Maybe you have an [00:23:00] LLC, but you should have an S corporation, or maybe you have an S corporation, but you should be in a C corporation. You're just going through the basics with that, and I can tell you from firsthand experience, pulp Nation, by the time you have your liquidity event, whatever that is, if it's two years from now, 22 years from now, it's too late.

It becomes a circus after the fact. There's too many zeros at stake. You've gotta get it done now you've gotta get your tax planning done right here and now because Uncle Sam, there are no dummies. They've seen it all day every day. If it's not dotting your is crossing the T's, if it's not right up to par, you're gonna have some problems.

And so talk to us, if you will, here on the Zippo podcast. We're about growing our profits today. And mark, maybe we never sell the business or maybe we're gonna sell it in two years or 22 years. Because I know when you're going through your four phases of the

Mark J. Kohler: Oh, I'm glad you brought that up. I love that you brought that up. That's where I was gonna go.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I'm gonna skip, to the very best part, phase four, at least us here on the Deep Wealth Podcast, Exit, retirement, and Legacy.

We can go back to the other three, but for phase four, Exit, retirement and Legacy, because I know so many [00:24:00] entrepreneurs, and I always like this, and I learned this the hard way. Remember offline, I shared, we took some of my biggest mistakes. We reverse engineered them and put them into the nine-step roadmap.

This was one of them. I didn't do this as far in advance as I should have. Why do the Exit, the retirement, the legacy, why do that now, even though it could be two years or 22 years away from my ultimate Exit? What does that time advantage of having everything in place, the tax strategies, done, sealed and delivered, that it's already there for me so that I don't have to look at it Maybe yearly, quarterly, whatever it's gonna be, but why do it now as opposed to after the fact?

Understanding the Four Phases of Business

Mark J. Kohler: The four phases, so everybody knows what's going on. We're talking about startup and structure, optimize and systemize, scale and save, and then four, exit.

That's when we're gonna discuss the retirement and legacy.

This is not the phases of an entrepreneur, this is the phases of a business. I can I, me, I'm in my fifties now and I've exited a number of businesses. I've got several businesses going on now. In fact, I've got probably [00:25:00] seven to eight businesses that are active going with team members, and a lot of fun projects in the way works in all four phases.

I have all four phases going on now. 

The Importance of Identifying Business Phases

Mark J. Kohler: When I can go into my business meeting, knowing this business is in phase two, I can put on a different headset, a different mindset, and so I can go in there and be a better business owner because I know where they're at and where they're going. And so as we get more mature as an entrepreneur, identifying where our businesses in their cycle life cycle, it helps us go in with more intention.

Being more calm and making better long-term decisions. 'cause we know where we're headed and it's just, it's a matter of time. Some people come intuitively to the table, whatever. I've got young people in phase four, I've got older people in their sixties in phase one, and that's okay. Young, old, male, female, beloved does not matter.

So when we go through these four phases, phase four is two years. At most it is the time period you execute the exit. Now I'm gonna be in the [00:26:00] phase we want to be in the longest, if any, is phase three. Phase three is where the getting is, getting good.

we have a system. We're making money, we're scaling, we're growing, and I'm saving and socking away money. I'm diversifying, I'm just bill by bullet. And for many entrepreneurs, this is a scary time because they're like, I don't know how long this is gonna last. 'cause they know how hard it was to get there.

Now they may be going, my Exit is going to look like this. And there's a goal, but we don't go there till we're ready to go there. 

Executing the Exit Strategy

Mark J. Kohler: So phase four is when we're like, all right, I'm ready to implement this Exit. It could be a transition to a family member, transition to employees. I could be selling to private equity.

I could be just sitting back and collecting a paycheck and watching from afar. But in phase four, we are replacing ourself. In phase two, I'm learning how to duplicate myself 'cause I need more of me, so I'm gonna develop people and duplicate and systemize and da, da, da. I'm not a AWOL owner. I'm there.

I'm very involved in phase two and [00:27:00] three but then in phase four, it's time for me to Exit. It may not be the business's Exit, but my Exit from the business. And so when we start to understand what do I want that to look like, execute it. It could take six months. It could take one to two years as we get our EBITDA dialed in and we go into a sales cycle.

But phase four for me is, and I know this is what you meant, phase three is where you were making your money. We love that phase, but phase four is when we pull the trigger and make that transition to me, that's how I frame

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so with phase four and where I was going, and perhaps I didn't word the question in the best of ways, but for phase four. It's having whenever we decide to Exit. And it could be, Hey, I've got a lot of runway ahead of me, and the Exit may not be for a number of years. I have no plans to put myself out to other pastures or close the chapter, but there may be some tax strategies that I can start implementing today that by the time I have an Exit years away from now.

It's been in the books for a number of years. It's been tried. It's been proven. It's not like I'm doing this six [00:28:00] days before the Exit, or six days after

Mark J. Kohler: Yeah. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: So many entrepreneurs and then the IRS comes along and say, well, hey Jeffrey, you just did this and you just sold your company. Hey this isn't gonna fly.

This isn't legit. It's not legal, and you're gonna have all kinds of problems with this. 

The Role of Tax Advisors and Accountants

Jeffrey Feldberg: So I'm talking from the business side of having that kind of preparation, that kind of advisory. Early on to help set the stage that whenever we're ready, we can trigger it and we're going to sleep very calm, very good sleep at night because hey, we've done everything that we can on that side, and when we're ready, we know what we're gonna be doing.

Mark J. Kohler: I love it. I agree. another way of summarizing. It's perfect. And so I think just everybody, one of the fun parts of being a good. In my opinion, trying to be a good tax Advisor and a tax planner and lawyer for our business clients is asking more a little bit about why the, asking the whys, and this scares again, the typical accountant.

They are very binary, boom, yes, no fuck, and risk is and not knowing the answer before asking a [00:29:00] question. Scares the hell out of them generally. And again, I don't mean to offend any of you accountants out there, been there, done that. I, as the president of my class in my Master's in Taxation program, I worked at KPMG.

I was a clerk for the tax court. I get it. I know you. And going into a meeting going, what are your hopes and dreams? How do you want to Exit? Why do you want to do this? It takes a very mature accountant to have the capacity to just deal with whatever they say. And so I think a good tax Advisor should be addressing the.

Hope and a dream. What are we gonna do to make it look like this? And you know what? Accountant, Advisor, you may not have the answer. It's okay. I don't go to my doctor and expect them to be all knowing, all powerful. If they come up next year and go, Hey, we discovered this new way to work on your knees so it doesn't hurt so much.

Great. Tell me. I don't go you jerk. Why didn't you tell me last year? Huh, I don't know why accountants think everybody expects them to have been perfect in the execution of their tax planning. We're all in this together. Keep learning for [00:30:00] crying out loud. Sorry, I'm angsty here on

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah you're preaching to the choir and Mark for the benefit of Deep Wealth Nation. Can you explain to them how sure accounts, they do tax planning, but down the road when we're talking estate planning, when there's gonna be some kind of liquidity event and liquidity event? There are two very posh words, very fancy words, but what I like about them.

A liquidity event could be, I'm going public. It could be I'm selling a portion of the company, or I'm selling a hundred percent of the company, or I am doing a reverse takeover. It's really all of those that are in those two posh words, liquidity event. So there's a difference of accountants who just prepare the taxes versus accountants who are in the know of, okay, you're gonna be having some kind of liquidity event.

So for the benefit of Deep Wealth Nation, why should they be considering, okay, is my accountant up to speed for this? Am I in the right place for that?

Mark J. Kohler: Sure. Let's get some better definitions out. And I like the way you're creating some scenarios, first of all, and I would, my tribe, my community, we would be in agreement on this. An [00:31:00] accountant is similar to a bookkeeper. Now I know some of you listening, that is not your definition, but just lean, lean into this for a minute.

An accountant is a bookkeeper. A tax Advisor can be an accountant. A tax Advisor can be a investment Advisor, a tax Advisor could be a lawyer. Anybody that's willing to be the quarterback on that team and talk about constructive tax planning. They don't have to be a CPA. They don't have to be an enrolled agent.

They just wanna be the one that says, I got it. I've got the toolbox. I want to talk about tax strategy, and I'm gonna bring to bear the team that we need, which will include payroll team members, accounting and bookkeeping, team members, internal CFO team members, external CFO, team members, lawyers, investment advisors.

All of those players are on the field, but who's the quarterback? my argument is. The tax Advisor that is going to step away [00:32:00] and let the lawyer be a star when it's time to do the estate plan to step away, Exit, and go. We need to bring in a tax lawyer that understands a liquidity event. And so your tax Advisor is really gonna be that.

Connector and bring together the strategies and people as you evolve through that. And hell no. If you're doing a, I can't even be, maybe you're, I'll admit, I am only good in certain areas too, and me recognizing that is what makes it a strength for me is that, that it's a, that's a strength because when you come to me and go, well, we're gonna sell our business.

I'll say, oh my gosh, let's bring together some team members to help us. Do that. your general practitioner is not gonna do your surgery this weekend on your knee. They're not gonna go do your LASIK surgery next, in two weeks. And they're not gonna do your colonoscopy and they're not going to you.

You. So just realize in the law and tax space, their specialists too, and it's okay.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely. And as we're talking [00:33:00] about this, we would love to throw this your way. There's a bank, they have a wonderful slogan. I'm gonna keep the bank out of it, but I'm gonna throw the slogan into the mix and they say, you're richer than you think. I know on your podcast you've covered this and it makes so much sense, so many entrepreneurs.

When it comes to having a Wealth Advisor or a tax planner or setting up a family office, they'll say, Jeffrey, mark, I'm not rich enough. I don't have those kinds of zeros in the bank. And Mark would love your perspective on why that's not necessarily the right kind of self-talk or mindset. And why here, right now, you, the team, our tax advisors, you can help us with?

Well, why don't we use some of the tax strategies that you alluded to earlier that the wealthy are using, the ultra rich are using, or the family offices or doing some of these things here above board that I can do right now, even though in my mind I'm saying, hey, yeah, Mark not there yet. So what's going on with that?

Mark J. Kohler: You're richer than you think. I love that. It's so deep. You're talking about manifesting Wealth and blah, blah, blah. I'm with you. I'd love that. If I may offer another [00:34:00] perspective in this arena is that you have more opportunity than, you know, you have more tools and capacity than and yeah, your bank account may not reflect with zeros. That aspect. But Wealth is not always zeros in a bank

And knowledge and power and capacity is super powerful. 

The Concept of a Family Office

Mark J. Kohler: And so, but anyway, with all the platitudes there I would just say this, that you as a business owner. To put this in. I'll bring it down to earth here with a strategy I alluded to a little earlier, and that is the family office.

and you know, I'm a firm believer of this. This is my passion project the last couple years. I don't know how it became this, but I freaking love it. And that is everybody should have a freaking family office. The fact, well, I don't have a hundred million dollars. I can't be a family office. BS. All of us can have a family office.

It just happens to be the third door down the right on the hallway with a hide of bed in it, and you're gonna have a family board meeting and you're gonna have a team of advisors. What do you [00:35:00] think a family office is? That's it. I don't need an office building with everybody showing up eight to five and have a payroll of a million dollars to do it.

I can have it right now and all of you, that is power. it gives you so many benefits for tax planning, asset protection, Wealth building, and family unity support and planning. It's required with your entities to try to save on a potential lawsuit in its audit protection with the iris, the. When you, you go into a lawsuit, they're gonna ask for your minutes.

You go into an audit, they're gonna ask for your minutes. You go get a bank loan, they're gonna ask for your minutes. Where are they people? Well, the nucleus of that is your family board. And it was so funny, someone today asked, well, who should be on your family board? And we were riffing and joking and I said, who are you inviting to Thanksgiving dinner? your first spot. Now. I know Uncle Eddie, you may not want him on your board, it's cool. Let's get everybody that's coming for family Thanksgiving to be there to hear about your vision, hear about your plan. Understand. And you know what, everybody buckle up. I'm gonna have you talk about [00:36:00] something totally controversial at dinner.

It's tough. We're gonna talk about money. I know. Families don't talk about money. But you're gonna break the cycle because when you talk about money and your dreams and wishes in your business, your kids are starving for this. They want to understand why you've been taking time away from them. The business could be the one thing they hate because it took you away from them when you could see it completely opposite. This is what allowed me to be there for you. And that conversation has gotta start happening. And it's the board meeting.

Jeffrey Feldberg: In deep, both Nation, as you're listening to this, I wanna remind you of something. As an entrepreneur, it's our responsibility to have the right, I'll call them the who's gonna help me with this? Who's gonna help me with that? I don't have to figure out the how and so deep both nation, you're saying, well, I don't know how to do a family office.

I didn't even know I could do a family office. Just heard about this. Now Mark's talking about that. When you get the right [00:37:00] people around you, we're not abdicating, we're delegating. Okay, mark, talk to me about the family office. How am I gonna do this? How do I set it up? Mark does this, him and the team all day long, and this is where you wanna be, where you have the right people that's helping you along the way.

They've just been down this journey. Longer and they're better at it than you, and that's okay. You don't have to invent it, but you can work with people who have done just a terrific job doing that. And Mark just changing things here up one entrepreneur to another. When you look back at your journey, because you're doing this all day long with you, your companies, other entrepreneurs I'm just curious.

Is there a belief that you had about money? We're just talking about that now, but is there a belief that you held about money or even the tax law that you've since done a 180, you reversed, you've changed, and if it is, what is it? What triggered that?

Mark J. Kohler: Wow. Did I have a belief about money that once I started consulting, 'cause it wasn't becoming a tax lawyer 'cause I did a undergrad in accounting and got a master's in taxation, went to law school, [00:38:00] worked at blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then launched a okay. Was I, what did I learn about money during that process?

It's such a blur. I don't think anything, what I started to learn, when I started to learn is when I did my 10,000 consultations. Many of you out there have heard that you become an expert after you shoot that basketball 10,000 times or you do the whatever 10,000 times. Well, me doing 10,000 consultations over 20 years that's when the real learning took place.

And you mentioned this early in the call our podcast that, being in the trenches, when you're in the trenches you learn so much. And so. It wasn't being a tax lawyer that I'd learned something. It was being with all you people. It was being with you, hearing about your hopes and dreams, your fears, your successes, your failures, and trying to be any guide I could be during that process. I feel I learned more and was the biggest benefactor than any one client [00:39:00] by far. Like that Godsend. So, man, what did I, sorry, that was a long answer as I'm trying to grab, what did I learn? Probably most probably I don't know if there when the epiphany occurred or whatever and is this a but there's so many, right?

So many of us as entrepreneurs, and this is a small theme in my book, what Wall Street Isn't Telling You. The business owners guide is that me as business owners, we, and I'm sure Jeffrey, there's a part of you that's in this mix where we think our best investment is us. And I'm gonna take every dollar I make, pay the taxes I have to, and put it back in my business.

That's my best bet. I can get my biggest ROI by putting money back into my business. And for a good 10, 15 years, that was my mo. I didn't fund my Roth IRA, the way I should have. I didn't fund my HSA, the way I should have 401k. You bring it. I buy a rental property once in a while, but not with the intention that I should have [00:40:00] intensity or that I should have.

My law partner, Matt, we talk about this on our podcast, he was much more religious about doing a little bit of, okay, I'm gonna reinvest a lot of my profit back into my business, but not all of it. And it was so. Wise of him and I ended up 15, 20 years later than him with. Business rich, cash poor. It's like a farmer land rich, cash

And I teach farmers. I have a ranch myself and I teach farmers. Quit doing this 'cause they'll just go out and buy more equipment. December, John Deere is the busiest store in town. Everybody's in there buying more crap they should buy. 

The Value of Diversifying Investments

Mark J. Kohler: But anyway, so I just learned that we have got to peel some money out of our business on a regular basis and.

Invest in other assets. Of course, passive income, generating assets. That real estate is a huge component in there, renting business property back to our businesses too. So I think one of my biggest lessons of life that took me a while to learn is that putting all your [00:41:00] money back into your business is not wise, not smart, scary.

And I've luckily dodged a bullet in a couple situations where it could have been far worse where I lost the business and everything.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. 

Mark J. Kohler: That's the risk. Sorry. Long

Jeffrey Feldberg: Mark, firstly, thank you for being so open and vulnerable and I will share with you up until recently, that was my viewpoint as well. Somewhere along the line, I just took the viewpoint. My money is safer with me than in the marketplace or anywhere else. And post exit where I had the zeros, I could do pretty much anything that I wanted.

I wasn't smart. I was working hard. I wasn't working smart because I said, okay, I'm not gonna put it in the marketplace. And yeah, when we had the Great Recession, I looked like a genius. I was just lucky. Rather be lucky than smart, but I put it at risk. Got into some let's call them interesting arrangements and paid the consequence for that.

Had I just taken some of that doesn't have to be all of it. And to your point, have it in residual income, recurring income, more into real estate. I didn't have to depend on other people, didn't have to depend on myself as opposed to me saying, [00:42:00] okay, I'm gonna do other businesses and I'm gonna put all this pressure on myself.

I've done it before. I can do it again. Well, statistically speaking, the odds are against me and I didn't have someone like you around me at that time. And maybe had I. I could have prevented myself from doing that. And so, Deep Wealth Nation, there's been a theme in this conversation and that theme is do you have the right advisors around you?

Do you have a mark or someone like a mark around you that's gonna challenge you? And yeah, it may hurt your ego a little bit and you're gonna say, geez, I never thought of it that way, or I don't like it that way. But do you have the right advisors around you? Because if you don't. You're heading in for a world of pain, and it's a disservice to you that it doesn't have to be like that.

And so I love that mark of you're saying, Hey, I don't have to have all my money back in the business. It's okay. I can take money out of the business, invest it and have it work for me instead of the other way around.

Mark J. Kohler: Yeah. No, it's just, yeah, it's an epiphany, isn't it? One day you wake. Up and you're like, okay. And it's the sad part about going through these school of hard [00:43:00] knocks. It is something you just can't learn until you live it. Regrettably there's those wiser souls than me that just know it, but I don't know how they get it, but

Jeffrey Feldberg: I'm with you. You know, It took uh, two by four being whacked across my head too many times. Okay. Yeah. Enough pain. I get it. Let me try something else. And I know you talk about, okay, why don't we buy some rental properties and how is a business write off and having the right kind of setup around that.

And so deep default, this is here for us and we are richer than we think, or there's more opportunities than we think we have. But are we asking the right questions? Do we have the right advisors? And that's a zillion dollar question. And for most entrepreneurs, and I've certainly been in that position for a long time, I've changed it until recently.

It's No, I don't have the right advisors. Let me get them and Mark would love your thoughts on this, even if I have the right advisors. To your point, I've gotta be the captain of my own ship and I'll share with you an Advisor gave me some advice the other day. I said a flat out no to it. It's not what I believe in.

Don't want to do it. No harm, no foul. Had we gone down that way, it would've been a big mistake. [00:44:00] And I was just lucky that time, nine times outta 10, maybe I wouldn't be, but to your point, it's not about, okay, just do whatever you want and tell me about it afterwards. It's having that active kind of partnership.

And if you don't have an Advisor that it's a give and take on both sides, it's probably the wrong kind of Advisor. 

Final Thoughts and Reflections

Jeffrey Feldberg: So, mark, let me ask you this. I have more questions than we have time. I don't know where the time's gone by. It is

Mark J. Kohler: I know it flew by.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And we're gonna go into wrap mode. But before we do that, is there a question I haven't asked or even a message, a theme or a topic that we haven't yet covered that you wanna get out to Deep Wealth Nation?

And from there we'll go into wrap mode.

Mark J. Kohler: Just what comes to mind to me at the moment is just the American dream is real. Everybody, and guess what? Your struggles are the same struggles we're all having. Not enough time, too many ideas. Our minds are racing at night. We're excited, we're stressed, we're concerned, we're frustrated. We work too hard.

But then on the flip side, we're like, oh my gosh, I love the, my freedom. And so many people are like I want to be an entrepreneur so I can have that freedom. But I really think it needs [00:45:00] to be redefined as flexibility because we tend to have more on our shoulders than the. Person that does not embrace entrepreneurship, we have so many more things to worry about, and we would sometimes feel like it's, it is a burden, but let's embrace the beauty of the flexibility of our lives and the power You have to control your own destiny and just don't feel alone and isolated.

Get in those communities that can help lift you up. And rely on your board, have people around you that you can share these challenges with, and talk about it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And Deep Wealth Nation. It's great advice. Actually, mark, it's step six in our nine-step roadmap advisory team and really the dream team, it's advisors who know each other, they've worked together before. You're not a one and done because what I'm hearing you say is, Jeffrey come into our community and sure I can help you on the tax advising side, but I have a whole network of these other advisors and let me introduce you to them.

Let's find the best fit. So de both Nation, I want you really to think about that. That said, mark, let's go [00:46:00] into wrap up mode. It's a tradition here on the Deep Wealth Podcast where I have the privilege, the honor to ask each guest the same question. Let me set the question up for you. It's a really fun one.

When you think of the movie Back to the Future, you have that fabulous DeLorean card. It'll take you to any point in time. Here's the fun part, mark. It's tomorrow morning. You look outside your window. Not only is the DeLorean car curbside, the door is open. It's waiting for you to hop on in what you do.

You're now gonna go to any point in your life. Mark, as a young child, a teenager, whatever point in time it would be. What are you telling your younger self in terms of life lessons or life wisdom or, Hey Mark, do this, but don't do that. What would it sound like?

Mark J. Kohler: Find the reason or reasons to learn from every mistake you make. And the sky's not falling for crying out loud. We get so upset and make things a bigger deal than they really are.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So maybe the sky's not falling. Enjoy the journey. They're both golden in terms of what's there. And Mark, just before we wrap this up, somebody in Deep Wealth Nation, they have a question for you, the team, they wanna speak [00:47:00] with you. Where's the best place online to find you to have that

Mark J. Kohler: Oh. so that's Main Street Business Services. And I would challenge all of you, if there's one thing that. You need to get done and we can help you with it's doing that. And then start with that comprehensive consult. Get over to kko os lawyers.com, KOS lawyers.com and start with a comprehensive review and see what we say.

We may say you are dialed in. Okay. Peace of mind. And you may go, oh my gosh, I really do have the best tax Advisor in the world. Chances are you don't, and you're gonna have some undone issues, whether it's estate planning or asset protection. And then thirdly, any of you accounts out there and I use that term broadly, again, from a bookkeeper to a CPA and everything in between.

Check out the main street pros. It really is a powerful community and tribe, and the training is about me learning from you as much as you learn from me and everyone else. So check it out. But

Jeffrey Feldberg: Deep Wealth Nation accountants included. The great news is this is all in the show notes. It's a point and click and hey, while [00:48:00] you're at it. Check out Mark's podcast, main Street Business. And again, go to the show notes, check out all of his books. Mark, it's official. Congratulations, this is a wrap.

And as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. Thank you so much. I.

Mark J. Kohler: Thank you so much. This was awesome. Thanks for the wonderful conversation. 

Wrap-Up and Call to Action

Jeffrey Feldberg: So there you have it, Deep Wealth Nation. What did you think? 

So with all that said and as we wrap it up, I have another question for you.

Actually, it's more of a personal favor. 

Did you find this episode helpful? 

Have you found other episodes of the Deep Wealth Podcast empowering and a game changer for your journey? 

And if you said yes, and I really hope you did, I have a small but really meaningful way that you can actually help us out and keep these episodes coming to you.

Are you ready for it? 

The dramatic pause. I'll just wait a moment. Drumroll, please. Subscribe. Please subscribe to the Deep Wealth podcast on your favorite podcast channel. When you subscribe to the Deep Wealth Podcast, you're saving yourself time. Every episode automatically comes to you, and I want you to know that we meticulously craft Every one of our [00:49:00] episodes to have impactful strategies, stories, expert insights that are designed to help you grow your profits, increase the value of your business, and yes, even optimize your post exit life and your life right now, whatever you want that to look like.

And every time you subscribe and a fellow entrepreneur subscribe, it's a testament to how together, Yes, we are. We are changing the social fabric of society. One business owner at a time, one liquidity event at a time. So don't let the momentum stop here. Subscribe now on your favorite podcast channel.

You'll never miss an episode. You'll be the first to hear from the top industry leaders, the innovators, the disruptors that are really changing and shaping the business world, and maybe you're commuting, maybe you're at the gym, maybe you're taking a well deserved break that we spoke all about on this episode.

The Deep Wealth Podcast, it's your reliable source for the next big idea that could literally revolutionize your business. So once again, please hit that subscribe button, stay connected, inspired, and ahead of the curve. And again, your next big breakthrough moment, it might just be one [00:50:00] episode away. Maybe it was even this episode.

So all that said. Thank you so much for listening. And remember your wealth isn't just about the money in the bank. It's about the depth of your journey and the impact that you're creating. So let's continue this journey together. And from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for listening to this episode.

And as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. 

Thank you so much. 

God bless.