527 Michael Walsh

[00:00:00]

Founder Growth Plateau

Jeffrey Feldberg: There's a quiet moment that every founder faces. Revenue is growing, the team is expanding. On paper, everything looks great, but internally something feels stuck. Michael Walsh has built his career in that exact moment. He works with founders who've already proven themselves, who are no longer scrappy startups, but not yet fully optimized machines.

 And what makes Michael fascinating is that he doesn't just focus on growth. He focuses on clarity. Clarity of strength, clarity of leadership, and clarity of execution.

Through Walsh Business Growth, he's helped entrepreneurs break through the invisible ceilings that stop otherwise capable businesses from scaling. His approach blends operational discipline with mindset shifts because he understands something many advisors miss.

Growth problems are rarely just financial.

They're structural, cultural, and personal. Michael doesn't sell hype. He challenges assumptions. He forces uncomfortable [00:01:00] conversations, and he helps founders build companies that are not only bigger but stronger. If you've ever felt the weight of leadership while trying to grow faster than your systems, this conversation will feel personal. 

Sponsor Deep Wealth Mastery

Jeffrey Feldberg: And before we start this episode, a quick word from our sponsor, Deep Wealth and the 90 Day Deep Wealth Mastery Program. Here's Jane, a graduate who says, and I quote, the Deep Wealth Mastery Program prevented me from making what would have been one of the biggest mistakes of my career. I almost signed on the dotted line with an unsolicited offer that I now realized would have shortchanged my hard work and my future had I accepted that offer. Deep Wealth Mastery has tilted the playing field to my advantage.

Or how about Lyn? Wow, he gets right to the point, and I quote, Deep Wealth Mastery is one of the best investments ever made because you'll get an ROI of a hundred times that. Anyone who doesn't go through this will lose millions. 

And as you're listening to these testimonials, are you wondering if you have the time? Are you even thinking that you've got this covered, you have the advisors or [00:02:00] people in your network? Well, I got to tell you, these myths, they're often behind the 90 percent failure rate for liquidity events. Think about it. You have one chance to get it right for your financial freedom. You really want to make it count.

And when it comes to time, let's hear what William has to say. We just got in this testimonial, William says, and I quote, I didn't have the time for Deep Wealth Mastery. But I made the time and I'm glad I did. What I learned goes far beyond any other executive program or coach I've experienced. 

So what do you think?

As I hear that, that's exactly what gets me out of bed every day. That's my mission. That's the team's mission here at Deep Wealth to literally change the social fabric of society. One business owner at a time, one liquidity event at a time, and my Deep Wealth Nation, what I want you to know, the Deep Wealth Mastery Program, it isn't theory.

It's from the trenches. It's the only one based on a nine figure deal. And that deal, that was my deal. You know my story. I said no to a seven figure offer. I created the system that later on, myself and my business partners, we [00:03:00] said yes to a different buyer, a different offer, a nine figure deal. That's what we now call the Deep Wealth Mastery Program or the Scale For Ultimate Sales system.

It's built by business owners, for business owners, so if you're interested in growing your profits for preparing for a future liquidity event, and that may be two years away, it could be 22 years away, whatever the time may be, you want to do this now, and you want to optimize your post exit life, Deep Wealth Mastery is for you.

To get started, email success at deepwealth. com. Again, that's success. S U C C E S S at DeepWealth. com. You'll receive all the information about the Deep Wealth Mastery Program or better yet, why not hop on a complimentary strategy call.

We'll go through exactly where your business is today and what's standing between you and your financial independence and your dreams. So that's where you want to be. You want to be with other successful business owners, entrepreneurs, and founders, just like you they're looking to grow their businesses, create markets.

Market [00:04:00] disruptions and unlock their financial freedom to get what they deserve. And whether you've been in business for three years, 40 years, you're a startup, you're manufacturing you're in high tech, low tech, whatever the case may be, coming in and network with other business owners, it's a safe space.

It's a confidential space with business owners, with businesses just like you, because they all wanna lock in their financial freedom and enjoy both success and fulfillment. So again, the 90 Day Deep Wealth Mastery Program, it has your name on it. All you need to do is take the next step. Please send an email to success at deepwealth. com.

Welcome and Big Growth Question

Jeffrey Feldberg: Deep Wealth Nation welcome to another episode of the Deep Wealth Podcast. We have a very special guest in the house. We have an author, fellow entrepreneur, a thought leader, someone who has the right questions that you're not asking for, the answers that you already have. And Deep Wealth Nation, let me ask you this. When it comes to your business, to your profits, as you look about growing, what do you think?

Is it easier to grow? I don't know, 5%, 10%, or maybe two x, [00:05:00] three x, five x, or 10 x your business? What do you think? Hold onto your thought because you're probably giving the wrong answer. But with that said, Michael, welcome to the Depot podcast and absolute pleasure to have you with us. My goodness, you've done so much.

You're doing some incredible things out there. But let's go back to basics 'cause there's always a story behind the story. 

Michael Origin Story

Jeffrey Feldberg: So Michael, what's your story? What got you from where you were to where you are today?

Michael Walsh: That's a big question. I will have run this place for 31 years. So, 

Jeffrey Feldberg: Love that. Congratulations.

Michael Walsh: Thank you. The place I go is what got me into the business in the first place. I was with a firm and I was doing personal and corporate planning. My undergrads a double major in commerce and economics from University of Toronto.

And I later got my MBA, but what I found was that I was doing tax planning and investment planning, and I had a vice principal as a client. And we, he and his wife and we supported them to get into a, real estate based investment. again, this was before I started this business.

So it was a minute or two ago. And at the time [00:06:00] he was making $90,000 and his taxes deducted from source were 30,000. So because of the investment, which was a quiet, standalone real estate investment on its own but we were able to get him 27,000 of his $30,000 back.

So he kinda liked that. And so, you know, he asked if we do the returns and I said, sure, we have that service. And so I did his returns and charged him $1,500 for back toback returns for him and his wife. And he was all happy with that, got his refund. And on we go next year he comes back to me and says this investment's doing really well.

I don't think I need any more investments from that side can you take care of the returns for me again? I said, sure. And so it charged him 1500 bucks again, and sure enough the same real estate was throwing off the same refunds. So he got $27,000 back again and, for the back returns, we were charging $1,500 and sent him the invoice and he complained, I said.

Okay. Did the back to back returns. I told you it was 1500. Yeah. But you didn't save me any more money. I said, you got 27,000 of your 30,000 back. He said, yeah, but [00:07:00] you did that last year. What have you got new for me? He says, I could have gone to, Intuit and gotten my returns done there.

I'm like, okay. And there was a few things that I thought when I heard that the first one is you can only save somebody so much tax. You can't save more tax than they paid. Or at least that's very difficult to do. And secondly, if you put them in higher yield investments, they are higher risk.

And there are times when people actually lose their money and

Jeffrey Feldberg: Ima imagine that.

Michael Walsh: understands this. But the, here's the other piece of it. It's like, you know what? If you teach somebody how to sell more, they keep paying you more. There's no lid on that one. And I don't have this issue. I actually shifted gears and I started doing outsource sales management or sales support for companies with multiple salespeople.

And it led from there. And was On May 3rd, 1995 is when I stepped into the realm. And then ever since then, I mean, uh, grown immeasurably and, lots has happened, but that's the start of that story.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely love that so much there with the human condition and how we think and not think, especially [00:08:00] as entrepreneurs. It's interesting because in your journey, and we will talk about this, and by the way, depap Nation, please go to the show notes. Everything is there. It's a point and click and speaking of the show notes while we're there, pick up Michael's latest book, freedom By Design.

The established business Owner's Guide to Growth. Make an impact and find the Joy again. So many. Powerful and impactful words that are in there that we'll get to. 

Founder Lies and Milestones

Jeffrey Feldberg: But let me ask you this. When it comes to us as founders, I know speaking for myself, the glass is always half full no matter what is going on.

And a lot of times it works out terrific. But other times I'm drinking my own Kool-Aid to my detriment. And so very high level. When you look at your community, Michael, the founders that you've been helping, is there a common, I'll call it a, a lie or a narrative that we're telling ourselves as founders that really isn't the case?

That, hey, maybe Jeffrey, stop thinking like that. Here's what you really wanna be looking at or thinking. Are you seeing some common [00:09:00] patterns from one founder to the next, despite industries being different businesses being different?

Michael Walsh: That's a great question. So yes, there are lies we tell ourselves, there are different lies at different levels of a business. so for example, as. When somebody's approaching their first million or when they're seeking to get their first million their goal is a million and that's it.

And it doesn't matter whether you're in Canadian dollars, US dollars, British pounds, it's a million. My second book was written about the first half of a woman's journey. She approached me in 2011 and that's because at the end of 2010, the bank had actually cut everybody's lines of credit in half.

Post 2008 recession sort of thing. 'cause the world kind of had a little bit of a blip there and they just, small businesses all got cut. She was fine. Her business was solvent. It was profitable, everything was happening. But her little 40,000 pound line of credit got cut to 20,000 pounds and she was looking for somebody to raise funds with.

So she comes to me and this woman at the time was 52 years old, we're not talking about some [00:10:00] growth shark that wanted to make it, and so, she and I talked and I said, I'll come over for a few days. She covered my travel and I didn't charge her for time spent together. And we compared notes and one thing led to another, we started working together.

But, her big goal was to get to a million. If I get to a million, everything's done. we'd worked together for a couple of years and she says, I gotta get to a million, I really gotta get to a million. I said, okay. So. I have a problem with that goal. She said, what? You don't like my goal? I said, no, I have no problem with your goal, but you're tracking 1.4 already. You've already crested a million. Oh, she had no idea what she wanted to do. So all of a sudden it's I want two. And then after two people have five they want, and then they want 10, and then if they get to 10, they want 20.

And on it goes, but it was fascinating to watch. Everybody has zeroed in. So if you're under a million, that's the first thing is like everything gets easier when I get to a million. But the truth is that one of the things I found is under each of the milestones of growth, whether it's 2 million, 5 million, 10 million, 20 million [00:11:00] onwards, there are problems and issues that are lurking beneath those milestones that catch us unaware and nobody knows about 'em.

What I find is that entrepreneurs are pretty savvy if you can see a problem. You can figure out how to deal with it. Whether you know yourself or whether you go find resources, you can do that. If you can't see a problem, it exists, again, it may not be as precise, but you know what?

You'll figure out how to navigate your way around it. The ones that get us is if you can't see a problem and you have no idea it exists, even while it's got you in its grips. Those are the ones that we have difficulty with and nobody has any clue that they're there. Okay, so what happens, for example, if somebody's caught in this, for example, if somebody's at about, I don't know, between six and a half and 8 million, they're in a situation where business is just hard,

Jeffrey Feldberg: Mm-hmm.

Michael Walsh: you know, The way it is.

It's just hard, and they start, a, especially, I see this a lot in professional services. We deal with a lot with service-based businesses or, or uh, profession or [00:12:00] businesses with service elements, whether it's professional services, skilled trades medical construction related healthcare, a bunch of stuff.

But the thing I find is that people settle in and they go, this is where it is. Like it's too hard to go past this. so one of the lies they tell themselves is it's, you know what, this is as much as I can get. that one is just as devastating to them as the one, the positive optimism can be to other people that sort of, you know, run themselves into a wall constantly thinking that'll get them through.

So the lies are that we tell ourselves are different as we go from that side. So, I find it fascinating because and one of the lies that, this woman was telling herself was, she's I'm just not good enough. and I don't have the right opportunities.

I'm like, it's not that you're not good enough. It's not that you don't have very time. She just didn't know how to do it.

When I started showing her how to do it, guess what, she started doing it. And we wrote my second book when she was at 2 million from 400,000 start in and a half years, and then in the next four years, she got to 7.3 million and that's when she decided to put a bow on it [00:13:00] because she was hitting 60 by that point in time.

She said, I think I should slow down a little bit. And she moved the company onto the next, level of people and on we go. But it was fascinating 'cause she really, honestly she just didn't know how, and you, you start giving her the tools, all of a sudden she just opened right up again.

Jeffrey Feldberg: It is amazing. So much of the human conditions in there. Michael, as you're talking about that, you're taking me back to the very early days of my e-learning company. Embanet got into business, not a dollar of revenue, and in my mind you pick these numbers, okay, if I can get to 10,000 enrollments with a company, life is grand.

I will be on cloud nine. And yes, that's the way to go. As we start approaching the 10,000 enrollments, did I say 10,000? I really meant 25,000 and it's a hopeless cycle. As we start getting to 25,000, did I say 25,000? I really meant 50,000, and it just keeps on going. It is endless in terms of what's there.

That's part of what makes us up with our DNA as founders and entrepreneurs, and there's lots of good things to that. At the [00:14:00] same time, there's some things we gotta be wary of. 

Danger Zones Explained

Jeffrey Feldberg: And speaking of that, in freedom by design, I love how you walk us through step by step of doing things first. Here on Deep Wealth, we talk about the F word, which is having fun.

You use another F word freedom, love that one as well. And right off the bat, after you talk about freedom, the very next chapter, you go right into what you call the danger zones. And here Deep Wealth, we call those the skeletons in the closet. And to what you're saying earlier, the skeletons in the closet that you don't know about.

Forget about getting an investor in the company. Forget about having some kind of exit or liquidity event. You've gotta be in business to be in business to even welcome that. And if you don't take care of those skeletons in the closet, that's just not gonna be the case. Or to what you're saying earlier.

Hey, sure I got to this point. I can't get beyond it. Maybe I'm not good enough or I don't know what I'm doing. Actually you're doing all the right things. You just don't know that there's a hole in this tub of water that's otherwise known as your business and profits and all the profits are flowing through that, and you don't realize that.

So when it comes to the first [00:15:00] two danger zones, for someone in Deep Wealth Nation who hasn't yet gone through any of your programs or your book, what do you want us to know about these two danger zones specifically?

Michael Walsh: Okay, A couple of things. One, the reason that these problems lurk beneath the surface and nobody can tell what they are, is that and they can't, you just can't see them. But the reason they can't is because it's a combination of a number of things. So one is as a company grows, it gets more people.

So that actually causes stresses on systems. But secondly, a company will outgrow its systems and structures and processes. Again, a company's not gonna run at 5 million with the same structures that used at 1 million. So, you're in a situation where as you go to 2 million, the issue is they need a manager to help the owner and the manager.

They take the most accomplished individual, contributor and make them a manager. And what they don't realize is the skills it takes to be effective as a manager are exactly the opposite of the skills it takes to be [00:16:00] a, high performing individual contributor. If you take a look at any action, you know, high performers are known for generating extraordinary results.

Results come from actions. Actions come from thinking and thinking comes from awareness. And so what happens is that if somebody goes into a manager and they go I know how to do this stuff, and if they don't know because they're more junior, I'll just tell them, then they'll know. The number one job of a manager is to provoke thinking so that the person can make their own choices and get better actions to generate their own results rather than just being told from somebody else.

The more I tell somebody what to do, the more if, let's assume they follow me and they don't just resent that, but if they follow me, then they're not thinking. And so what I'm literally doing is making their job of becoming a high performance individual harder by actually robbing of the chance to think through things if I can actually help them increase their awareness and notice what's going on, and then help them with, provoking their thinking.

Just by asking them questions [00:17:00] and giving them the chance to think it through. I get way stronger actions, I get stronger employees and it goes way faster. Guess what? Approaching 2 million. Nobody knows that, and most first time managers, they just don't know that at any size. So, that's what they run into in the first one.

And then the second one is when you start getting just past 5 million. We do a lot of work with project based companies and what you find is, you know, at a 2 million, I may have three teams, three project teams that are working on different things. By the time I'm at, at 5 million, I may be at eight.

The structures to support eight teams is different than the structures to support three teams. And the individual relationships have a big impact on that. And so if I'm not giving somebody, I think they're fine, they're doing okay. And I'm not checking in. All of a sudden I wonder why I've got quality issues starting to creep up.

I've got people taking longer than they need to. My profit is dropped and it's no one thing. I can't tell what I got the truth is, it's just a different structural challenge that I need to support these people as opposed to try to put in a structure that'll try to [00:18:00] control them or get them to do what I want them to do rather than actually give them the tools to bring their best, which is plenty if I do it right.

so, in the first couple of danger zones, those are the biggest things that, people run into. But the underlying thing that, Actually handles all of it. Structures and people you need to continue to evolve your structures. But if you, instead of putting in controlling structures, you put in structures that can support people to be at their best, then you can actually tap the X-Factor in any company, which is the individual power of individual people.

When you've got people working with each other and they're all doing their best, but they're connecting with each other because you built whatever the complimentary strengths on your team, you're in a situation where life gets so much easier. I'm sure Jeffrey, you've run into that and you've seen exactly what that's like when that happens, we all have what's it like when you run into that, when you actually can get people clicking.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah, it is so incredible that you're talking about that offline. We were sharing a little bit of war stories back and forth, and I was sharing how at Embanet, so [00:19:00] many of the early years losing money and how are we gonna get to tomorrow? And then you finally turn that corner, the company's growing, you're bringing all more people.

Yes, we can create a market disruption. We're on the right path. Wait a minute, all those profits that we just got, I can't sock that away. I have to put it back into the business to get more infrastructure or more hardware or different kinds of people. It's a tough go. 

Outgrowing Early Team

Jeffrey Feldberg: And Michael, for me, the toughest part of that was oftentimes, at least at Embanet, and I know we're not alone with that.

I'm actually going to step two X-Factors in the Deep Wealth nine step roadmap. We talk all about this in Deep Mastery program. One of our X-Factors in our nine step roadmap. It's the culture. And the culture really is the team. So the culture on the team, and in any startup, it's like a family. And for us at Amnet, it was almost like a cult in a good way.

Nothing crazy going on behind the scenes with that. But we were there early mornings, late nights, going through everything, and it was a sad day when I realized for the company to get to the next [00:20:00] level or to stay at the level that we're at, the people who got us there, my team members, they're now friends.

Probably aren't and likely aren't the ones take us to the next level. And as much as I can try with the training and upgrading their skills, it's good intentions. The outcome is not gonna be there. And sadly, we had to part ways. Would love your thoughts on that.

Michael Walsh: Yeah that's really hard. In fact, that's what happens with people going through the first million in revenue. What happens is that you've got eight people. Remember, if I'm got my first eight to 10 people the truth is that I need utility players. I need people that can do multiple things because I can't afford specialists in each of these roles.

There's not enough money at the table yet, and I say yet, but that presumes that it's ever gonna be there and it doesn't feel like it is at the time. So what happens though is you start to get to 1.2, 1.4 and all of a sudden you start to need specialists. But what's happening is these people that were actually like ready to fall on a sword for you.

They're a [00:21:00] little lost 'cause they're not quite sure where their role is. And they used to be based on a really tight relationship with you. We yet, at the same time, you've now got a larger thing, organization and you're in a situation where you're getting some experts in their particular field.

And so there's things lost and by the time you're at about 25 people, these people, if you found a place for them that they can accept, that's one thing. But quite often that just doesn't happen. really do need to help them to move to whatever's next for them because they just no longer fit in the new environment.

It's one of the hardest things to do. It's one thing to let somebody go when. They've stolen from you, or they're just, being deceitful in some way or and they're causing mayhem to others or whatever. But when these people are giving their heart and their soul it tears you apart.

I don't know about you, but it tears me apart when that's one of the hardest poss, jobs. And it's interesting because as entrepreneurs we start by thinking individually, naturally, as humans. I think we think [00:22:00] individually, and there's a time where we need to shift to think collectively.

In other words, the group as a whole has to be considered as just as important, if not sometimes more important than any single individual. And that's really hard because I don't want people to be secondary to the group of people. Yet at the same time, you have a commitment to all the people to make this whole thing work.

And so when somebody doesn't fit, it gets really tough. I've seen people, work with it in certain ways. I find that. Being honest with somebody and combining that with care and actually helping them find whatever is or next for them, can sometimes make a difference.

Some people just feel betrayed and there's nothing you can do about that it, but it's, it's horrible. That one part of the game is just horrible.

Jeffrey Feldberg: and Michael, I have to share with you, despite the number of companies that I've started and run and led, that's the one area to this day, I have never gotten quote-unquote used to it. It's hard for me to [00:23:00] accept where you, you have a difficult conversation. The narrative that I shared with myself to help me get through that was number one, it's not just this individual.

I am responsible for all of the team members and the company always has to come first because if the company comes first, everyone else benefits not the other way around. And then I tuned into the world's favorite radio station, WI fm, the what's in it for me. And I realized, Hey, Jeffrey, stop being selfish on the one hand, and don't feel sorry for the person.

Because if we're honest about it, just as they're not a fit for the company anymore, the company is now holding them back potentially from their destiny, they'll never achieve that where the company is and who are we to stop 'em from doing that. And to your point, if we can help them find that next opportunity, they can do some wonderful things there for people that really need the help and get that fulfillment and that success.

It can make all the difference in the world. 

Hire Smart Framework

Jeffrey Feldberg: So we've been talking around it, and I know you talked specifically to this in Freedom by Design. Hiring. Hiring. The new team members [00:24:00] spoke about having to sadly let them go or fire them. And Michael, I know for myself some of the biggest mistakes that I've made have been on the hiring side, but this is not about me.

It's all about you. What would you want us to know as you call the chapter hire smart? How do we hire smart? What should we stop doing perhaps that we're doing and start doing that we're not doing? What does that look like?

Michael Walsh: Okay, so just before I go to that, I just want to speak to what you just mentioned, with regards to letting people go. The one thing that actually does make it easier is. Realizing that you know what, your people are whole and fine and complete the way they are.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah.

Michael Walsh: they're not sitting there as these little chicks that need mom to feed them and they're helpless.

It's like, you know what, in a work environment it's not, it's, you see the difference with a family and a business is in a family, you're there for life. Okay? Regardless. You know what, there are kids. We take care of them we'll suffer through whatever they go through. As far as that's concerned in a business, it's people are bringing something to the [00:25:00] table and you're creating an environment for them.

And as long as that works really well. And if it doesn't, you're right. It's not in their best interest to stay in a situation that doesn't serve them. But if you treat people as whole and complete and find the way they are, and you're looking at opportunities together, it changes everything.

Now, that said, when you look at hiring, I take it a step back. a lot of people think of a a business as a well oiled machine. The problem with the notion of a well-oiled machine is that makes people cogs in the system. Nobody wants to be controlled,

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah.

Michael Walsh: okay? You don't wanna be controlled.

I don't wanna be controlled. In fact, we've never met each other formally before today. And you don't control me. I don't control you. But there's this thing that's evolving called a professional relationship between you and I that's starting to emerge. You influence it, I influence it, but neither one of us controls it.

Okay? So unless we have balance in the equation. It's not gonna work. one of the first things though, is I have to rethink the core of the business. It used to be, if [00:26:00] I treat people like cogs in a system, you, my job is to create value for my customers. That gives me a profit. But the people then are the conduits for that and they're left behind.

if I look at a three-way value exchange instead of a two-way value exchange, I actually, it changes how a business operates. So we have to do things in see your, your ability, the core of any business is your ability to generate a result for your customer that they value, that they want to pay for.

That gives you a profit and that grows your people because people are actually part of the core. Your people are part of the core. Now, given that that's the case, when I, I talk about hiring smart, you know what people say? People are hard to find. I get the best that I can and on we go.

No. What if you were just hiring partners and professional colleagues? High level colleagues, and I don't care if I'm hiring somebody for the, an entry level shipping clerk or whether I'm is somebody on the reception desk or, is what we have traditionally considered entry level jobs or a junior at [00:27:00] whatever the type of role is.

If I look at, is this person a potential partner or potential high level close ally, whether they're there now or not, or they grow there, if I actually look at them from that set of eyes, I change my hiring criteria.

I don't just take anyone. I actually wait and get it because hiring right is literally half the deal.

If you don't have the right people at the table for you, this is not gonna work. You're not gonna get the freedom you want. You're gonna spend your time herding cats or trying to get them to do what you want 'em to do. You know what, different people belong in different places. Some people thrive in one type of environment.

Other people thrive in a very different environment. so the key is what's the environment you have? Who are the people that are around, and what kinds of people would actually thrive in the type of environment that you look at? So, for example, one of the things we're constantly looking at, because we're looking in service-based businesses, is we always want people that are hungry to learn and grow.

that's not true in every type of job, in every type of company, but for the types of companies we work with, that's [00:28:00] absolutely critical. and there's a number of other things that, that we take a look at. But, it's interesting, one of the things that I've actually added in as part of the book, so on the, speaking of hiring I put something free in the book.

I'm actually gonna, violate what all the people that endorse and tell me that I'm supposed to do this and supposed to do that. I'm gonna actually go completely against them and say anybody who's listening to this podcast. Okay. The link that we've got in the book is called freedom book resources.com.

And all it is, it's a link that shows two things. One, and you don't have to put your email addresses and all. It's not any of that. You just go and you can download something and the things, you can download one, you can get the charts from the book. And the reason we put that in there is for people that have, for example a Kindle version of the book.

We have an audible Kindle and you can get a print copy of the book but for people that are Audible or Kindle, sometimes they don't have access to the charts. So we have one little document that has the charts, but the second thing we put in there is I have our entire [00:29:00] hiring system start to finish in that link.

Freedom book resources.com and all you do is you go in there and you know it just, even if you don't wanna buy the book, if you get the hiring guide and you can see how we do it that has, what are the different interviews we go through, what are the questions we ask? But not just that, what are the answers we like, what are the answers we get concerned about and why?

And what is it to follow up? If you get an answer that concerns you, how do you follow up? If you get an answer that you really like to double check it, all that kind of stuff is all in there. It's a 70 page guide and it's literally our full hiring system. so when you ask that, okay, so I have 70 pages worth of answer for you, or people could just get the guide.

It doesn't cost 'em anything. The they don't even have to part with an email address. and if that helps people's lives, then awesome.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Terrific in deportation. All of this is in the show notes. It's a point and click. 

Hiring Red Flags

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so Michael, let's go to one of my favorite ways of looking at the world at times, especially in a conversation like this, it's the good old Ritos [00:30:00] law or the 80 20 principle where it says, Hey, 80% of Jeffrey's profits are coming likely from 20% of certain customers.

And it may not be 80 20, it might be 95 5. Hey, the 5% of these customers are generating 95% of my profits. Not great. If you're looking to get an investor or a buyer, that's a whole other conversation. But when it comes to hiring, is there a Preto law going on here in 80 20? Principle, Hey Jeffrey, here's some red flags that you really wanna look out for, because if you ignore them, 90% of the hiring problems after the fact.

Come from the red flags that maybe you didn't even know were there, or they're a skeleton you didn't even know about and you brought the person on board, and this is where it's leading some problems. Are there any patterns that you'd want us to know?

Michael Walsh: Absolutely. So earlier in the book, before that, one of the things I talk about is, you need to understand a little bit about human behavior. And there are four core things that we focus on. They're very basic, but I gotta tell you, they're they're all over the place. Like they're in each of us all the time, every single day.

[00:31:00] Only on days that end in Hawaii. no other days than that. so we have four different characteristics that we're involved. We all have the biological need to survive. We all have an innate desire to thrive.

And we have survival and thriving occurring concurrently at any point in time. Now, you don't have to have all your survival needs handled for life before you ever thrive otherwise.

Why would a five-year-old ever share a toy? Whereas, you know, so I'm looking to thrive. But anytime there's a threat, survival instincts come in. They're all about protecting myself. Thriving is about giving to others. Okay? The third one is we have both the ability and the need to connect.

Inherently, we just know that together we're stronger. And the fourth thing is we have the ability to adapt to a changing situation. Even if we don't like the changes, we can adapt. And that's part of the reason that we're still around. And the dinosaurs aren't, they couldn't adapt. We could. so far we'll stay tuned.

We'll see how we're doing. We see what happens. so when I'm listening from a hiring, I look at [00:32:00] who's stuck in survival and spends their time protecting themselves against other people who's actually settled enough in their skin that they actually can really look and listen for what would make a difference for people.

And they really are looking at thriving. 'cause thriving is about others. Surviving's about ourselves. We protect ourselves or we wanna dance or participate or have fun in life with others, it's, it's one of those two. And then I watch, what is their in tendency to connect or.

Now, it doesn't mean that I just look for a bunch of socialites but if somebody's literally afraid of people have to look what role would really honor them and allow for the growth of the business. At the same time. It's not to say that there aren't any, and then how strong are people in terms of adapting?

So one of the areas that I look at is we all have a life issue.

So we've all had some upset as we were younger. So we've actually, we asked people about their futures. We asked 'em about their past. We look at their favorite boss, their best boss. We look at their biggest mistake or screw up.

If somebody's not willing to admit one, [00:33:00] then that tells me about they're busy protecting themselves. They don't actually want it. So what else are they gonna, not share whatever. Pretense doesn't really work very well, but then we keep going past, we look at things like favorite childhood memories, but what's the biggest challenge or difficulty that you faced growing up?

Resolved Issues at Work

Michael Walsh: And what I listen for there, we all have an issue. Is it still open or has it been resolved? I'm not a psychologist. I don't pretend to be, but you know what? Here's how I can tell. You had this difficulty and we all have had them, and some of them are traumatic, some of them are not.

But the question is how did you cope at the time, but what did you learn from it that, how has it shaped or informed who you are today when you've resolved whatever the issue is? There's always a positive impact on you. We're really good at taking the lessons and making the best of them as humans.

And so anybody who's got any positive thing around that, they've literally resolved it. Somebody that literally hasn't got it resolved. It's not resolved. It's gonna, you know what? People will bring their problems to work, and I'm gonna spend [00:34:00] more time with this person with problems that I didn't expect.

Now it's not around their life issue or whatever, if they haven't resolved the core issues, that are the growing pains of life. Then I'm dealing with a problem. Not somebody that helps us solve our, you know, you hire people to help you solve problems, not to create more of their own.

And that is one of the areas that, we watch for. 

Interview Anger Signals

Michael Walsh: And the truth is, you can hear about all that in an interview process. And I gotta tell you, some people say, you're asking personal questions like, well ask questions like what makes you angry? What kind of people annoy you, but also what kind of people do you get along best with?

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah.

Michael Walsh: It's amazing how angry people will get angry telling you about how they may get angry and other people just chuckle. They go I don't really get angry very much. This doesn't work for me. And it's really more what irritates me or what annoy, and so it's fascinating to see how settled is somebody in their own skin.

'cause I need them to be able to focus on the job, not focus on continuing to just fix whatever's going on for them. We all have stuff [00:35:00] that's going on for us, so nobody's immune from that. But I need, you know what, if you've got enough of it settled and you're actually able to step into the role where you can contribute to other people, then we get that thriving environment where people do have each other's backs and everybody creates something.

That's very cool. So I don't know if that's the kind of thing you expected, but I gotta tell you that has a huge impact on people's effectiveness in hiring.

First Impressions Matter

Jeffrey Feldberg: Michael, what I really appreciate about your system is it's not haphazard questions. I wanna say there's 31 very specific questions that you're asking everyone that you're hiring, and I like how. Even you're going against this political correctness or all that other mumbo jumbo because appearance does matter.

And right at the very beginning you're talking about, okay, how does the person, how are they appearing? Are they groomed? Does their hair look good? Are they looking at you? What's the eye contact? Like all those other kinds of things that are going on. Because let's face it, we talk about this in deep health mastery before anyone even says a word.

So if I walk into a room, I'm about to meet someone, I don't even have to say hello, [00:36:00] I'm already being judged. How do I look? How do I hold myself? How's my eye contact? How's my handshake if it's an in-person meeting? 

Test Drive the Hire

Jeffrey Feldberg: And then I also appreciated what so many potential employers don't do is, okay. Jeffrey had some great interviews with you, some wonderful questions.

Let's do a test. I'm not saying exactly in those words, but it'd be like saying for most people, do you ever buy a car? Without test driving it. Now, some people may say, yes, I do, but the vast majority would say well, of course not. I always wanna test drive a car. Why wouldn't we want to, quote-unquote, test drive a person?

Oh, they're not a car. I'm not suggesting that they are, but there's things that we can do or simulate to see what they'd be like in our environment. You can have a rockstar of a team member, and Michael would love your thoughts on this. They may not be a rockstar in my company or in my company's culture, maybe elsewhere, but not here despite what they're bringing to the table.

Would love your thoughts on that.

Michael Walsh: Totally agree. 

Givers Matchers Takers

Michael Walsh: One of the things that I listen for is cynic was it cynic? I can't remember whether it was Cynic. [00:37:00] Cynic or Adam Grant. It might have been Grant that wrote a book about givers and takers. I think it was Grant that wrote a book about givers and

Jeffrey Feldberg: That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Walsh: And so I don't have a problem with the giver.

I have no problem with the matcher. If I have a taker, I got a black hole that energy's gonna go into and nothing comes back out, I'll never hire a mercenary. So if I need somebody who's started sales, and you know what? The most people I can find are between one and 3 million that they can generate in sales in a particular industry.

And I've got somebody that can do 5 million, but they're a mercenary. I'll pass every time. Because you know what, it's not about that. It's about how do we do, not just how does an individual do, and somebody that's just about themselves doesn't contribute to others. I need somebody who wants to contribute to others.

'cause the teams always, what they say is a well-developed team will always work better than any individual, no matter how strong the individual. And in professional sports that happens all the time. You see those types of things. And we have the odd exception, but those are anomalies when that happens, more often than not, if I've got a strong team and I've got people that [00:38:00] have got each other's backs, they will actually collectively figure stuff out, so, I watch that very carefully as it's who plays nice in the sandbox with each other. Because we got one sandbox or even if it's distributed, and dealing more with remote workforces and things doesn't matter. That energy leaks in, and one person can change a 50 person company in terms of their temperament.

So that's where values and things like that actually play a major focus. 

Values Beyond Marketing

Michael Walsh: A lot of people publicize their core values on their website. In my opinion, those aren't values. Those are marketing statements. If they're the real values, get them to heck off the website. Here's what you wanna do.

Test the people you hire against the values. Don't say, hi, here's my values, and now you're just gonna spout back the values to me and go, oh, that person has the values that I gave. I scripted them to tell me. It's just not, why would I make my life that hard? I'm not, 

Jeffrey Feldberg: yeah. As you're talking about that, two things are coming to mind. It's that old African proverb, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. [00:39:00] And here in the Deep Wealth community, we often say, show me your team and I'll tell you your future. Because they're so intertwined with one another.

And I'm all about that team player who wants to give, they're not gonna be a taker. They're more of a giver. And of course, there's always extremes to every situation. I get that. But that's some great insights and wisdom for us to be thinking about. 

Leaders vs Managers

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so if we take a step back, one of the challenges that I've had with Love your thoughts on this.

I know I'm not alone in de Both Nation. For me, it was always Jeffrey, no one's better than you. You can do this faster, quicker, you're smarter. Actually, that was my own Kool-Aid I was drinking. That's usually not always the case. There's always people who are gonna be smarter, what you want and people who are better.

How do we, when we bring someone in, even if it's an entry level position, front lines on the team. You talk about developing leaders, and for me, so much can be said for that. And firstly, I like how you said leaders, not managers. There's a difference. It's a subtle change. People, leader, manager, or they use 'em interchangeably.

They're really not. What would you want Deep Health [00:40:00] Nation to know? How do they develop the leaders who one day will hopefully replace them, fire them from what they're doing right now as a founder so they can go on within the company and do other things. Or maybe not be more in a board of advisory position, but you have to have the right team, the right leaders on that team to take the company to where it needs to get to.

So what do you want us to know about developing leaders?

Michael Walsh: You you give these questions that sound so simple and they're so loaded. I love it. I absolutely love it. So I'm gonna have to, again, take a step back as we look at this. So if I wanna talk about developing leaders, I do have to go to managers, because managers are, like you said they are different from leaders.

A manager's job is to take the talents of people and turn them into collective performance in a way that the manager doesn't get in the way. Again, you wanna provoke thinking and you want people to work with each other and build things out from that. And the manager's job is to be a conduit for that.

A leader's job is to support managers, to support the people.

And we talk about creating and unfolding a compelling future. And leaders are more known for their [00:41:00] inspiration, whereas managers are known for the implementation. and that's fair, except in my opinion, leaders don't belong on a pedestal if the leaders make the decisions and the people actually implement.

I've just created an us and them.

If I invite people to participate in some aspect of the thinking it through, and even if it's to get their input on different things, what happens is there's us and then there's no them, like them goes away. We just each have different roles. But if I can create a situation where there's not an us and them that I'm in a situation where this really can thrive, we each have different roles and the leader's job is to protect us from things that he or she sees coming that we may not be able to see from our perspective.

But at the same time they interact with us like we're important and they're important. 'cause if we each have different jobs and we're all important as opposed to I'm better than you because I'm a leader and you're not, I'm better than you. Rarely works these days. And frankly it didn't work incredibly well ever.

It's just something people put up with. [00:42:00] The. Evolving leaders. The part of leadership that people don't understand is really growing future leaders in the company. And that's strategic thinking. It's actually how to support people in a way that builds the others up. 

Humble Tofu Leadership

Michael Walsh: Too often I've seen situations, so for example, I deal with different types of firms, one of 'em, architecture firms and engineering firms as well.

And what we find is that there'll be a person who's considered a technical expert, and quite often they become, say, a managing partner and everybody relies on them and without any intent, they end up being a leader with a thousand helpers rather than a part of a team. Some of the best leaders I've seen are, you know what people have generously sure will claim that it's generously called tofu leaders.

Okay. They're kind of bland and they don't really do much on their own, but they, everything else is just, better when they're around and they're good for you as far as that's concerned. It's interesting because, even when you look at Jim Collins and the stuff he's talked about when he's gone into [00:43:00] leadership, he's saying the two biggest skills you need or you need the drive, but you also need a level of humility.

If you don't have that humility then this doesn't work. As long as people think they're better than somebody else, it gets in the way of effectiveness. In a, in an organization the best leaders quite often are not remembered. The teams

How you know that the leader is good, as the team is remembered for the team's accomplishments, and the leader just passes it on and then the next leader comes in.

And once again, the team's noticed, not the leader, and that, goes, it flies in the face of individual rugged nature of what it is to be an entrepreneur, be a leader. And, but I find that, I gotta tell you, those are the people that actually make the biggest impact.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And why is that? Do you think that they're making the biggest impact as you described it to us, as you walked us through that? What's going on there?

Michael Walsh: They understand the importance of people and they allow people to be at their best. If I claim that I'm smarter than you, I will be a leader with a thousand helpers because I won't let anybody who's smarter than me in [00:44:00] or I won't let them express that. If I'm really smart as a leader, I know that there are so many people that know so many more things than me in their various aspects, and I'd let them do their thing.

And what if, and if I just give them structures to be at their best, and I put, I've assembled, again, half the game is hiring If I've assembled the right people and, not like people that fit in slots, but people that can bring their talents and resources to the table in, in synergistic ways that people never even thought of.

That'd be awesome. Yesterday morning I was talking to one of co-founders that I'm dealing with. He's the CEO of the company and his co-founder is, sort of the subject matter expert in that industry. And but he said, he says, I went away, I was gone for 10 days.

And he said I was working with my guy who's in charge of the mentors. They help people write fiction novels, so learning to write fiction. So he's dealing with mentors. 'cause every person in their program gets a one-on-one mentor. And he says, I was talking to the mentors and one of the things they said is, these students, we talk about different tools and that, our tools are a little bit behind.

He said, so, [00:45:00] we gotta half a dozen of them together and they all put together all these tools for the students 'cause they know that'll make the students' lives easier. And, I just thought I'd let you know that that happened. Now the guy that I was talking to yesterday, it never even occurred to him to do that.

He's like, they're doing this stuff and I haven't even thought of it. It's like, I love it when they're doing things that I haven't thought of. It's like he says, I gotta stay outta the way more often. These people are awesome. And when you start to see, and that's a quiet little thing, it's, it's some templates, but it's huge.

And it's consequence, that's, in my opinion, that's leadership is giving people the room to do what they wanna do and then, giving them ideas and letting them work with each other. 'cause when people are aligned in a common cause, magic happens. And that's by the way, how you get freedom in your business, from your business and because of your business.

'cause you can do more of the stuff you love because you've got other people who are doing the stuff they love. And it does come together and, a lot of people go yeah, that, that's some fiction or that's some altruism, or No, it's actually how business, [00:46:00] It's the hardest nosed, bloody minded way of maximizing your profits sustainably that exists. Like you said, if you wanna go far, have a team.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Going back to what you said earlier and couldn't agree more, you would rather pass on a mercenary to get a giver who maybe isn't as successful, quote-unquote, or as effective in some areas. You're talking about salespeople and generating revenue. We could just change the title and some of the KPIs. Same thing.

Going back to hiring. You're exactly right. If you have that mercenary, they're not really an A player because A players will hire other A players knowing that, hey, maybe this person can be my successor, and that's what you want. I don't wanna be in this position forever. Maybe I can hire someone who's smarter than me.

They can take over what I'm doing so I can move up the ladder and get to the next place. But when you don't hire people that are better or smarter than you, then you're absolutely right. The company is on a quick decline. And going back also to something earlier that you said, one person can change the trajectory of 50 people.

That cuts both ways for the better. But [00:47:00] also for the worst, and we have to be very mindful of that as founders. And Michael, let me ask you this, because this next question could easily be not just an episode, but an entire series. Walk us very high level through your secret sauce, the magic behind the scenes.

I'm coming to you and I know you offer a number of different programs covering different areas, but generally speaking, whether it is business growth or on the operational side or on the scales skill side, you're covering that in so much more. What's the general process? Okay, Michael, here I am. I'm the founder.

Here's the company. We have this challenge, otherwise known as an opportunity. Can't figure it out ourselves. Help us with that. What's your process? What am I going through? How long does that take? What can I expect?

Future Back Planning

Michael Walsh: Okay, so, One of the first things that I do when I, work with people or even when we're exploring whether it to work together, because quite often what I'll do is I'll actually go and I'll spend two or three days with somebody determining how we might work to work together.

Because one of the most expensive things you can do in [00:48:00] my industry is take on a client where the fit's not good, because you will live to pay for it.

I'm not interested in that. I got the movie, got the scar tissue I don't need forget it. I'd rather invest a couple of days and go, I'm not probably the best fit for you.

But if you went over here and did this and that, I think, you'd be better served. But that aside, I look and listen at three levels. I look at strategy. What is the strategy? What's the thinking of the owners the structures and systems that they have in place?

'cause structures are critical. Let's not get ourselves, structures are critical. The key is which ones you put in, whether they support people or whether they corral people. And invariably they, we put in structures that corral people. So it's okay, but, and you know, what are the structures and how do they need to evolve or morph as a company grows.

And then the third is the people, who have they got and what's the talent level that's at the table, but also how do they treat each other? What's the thinking in terms of people? Because a protective stance against my people. Is really hard. If that's my stance as an owner, I as a practitioner, make, really [00:49:00] hard to do anything with that.

If somebody really understands and appreciates the power that's available in their people, if they know how to interact with that effectively. And in my opinion, even that is a function of design and structure. How do you structure the relationships with your people in such a way so that they're really productive for everybody?

Those are the three things that I'll watch and I do look at what the underpinnings are. what are the underlying issues that are there? What's been stopping them from getting where they want? One of the things I found when you look back at strategy, sometimes people just don't look big enough.

Like I dealt with one guy he's his business is at about 12 million and he's busy taking it apart now and rebuilding it so that it can go to 20 million. Okay. But he had. Take it apart and rebuild it so that it went to 12 and he had to take it apart and rebuild it. When he went through 5 million and he's not looking far enough, you made a comment is a five or 10% increase, you know?

Right. or is, double or triple or tenfold. here's what's [00:50:00] happening that people quite often don't look far enough past the immediate goal. So, all I know is if I stop a golf club now, I'm not a very good golfer, but I do claim to enjoy being out, smelling the fresh cut grass and things like that.

As I have like way more shots I get much more value out of a golf round than many people. 'cause I get a lot more swings at the ball. But that said, here's the thing, you always sit, swing through the ball.

If I stop my club at the ball's not gonna go very far. I have to swing well through it or else I've got a problem.

So, when I'm looking at somebody who's taking apart their company again at 12 million so they can get to 20, no, at 12 million, what is it that you need to do to plan it out to 50 and then say at 50, what does it look like at 30? What does it look like now at 20? What does it look like? And you'll identify structures that need to be in place at 20 that actually don't have to undo the thing.

Now, whether you ever get to 50 or not, who cares? The fact that you've identified [00:51:00] a couple of little structures that between 12 and 20 I can put in place, I have the choice of doing it without actually, undoing everything. The other thing is that again, this need to survive combined with the desire to thrive plays big here too, so Jeffrey, when you look at the future, do you see certainty or unc.

Jeffrey Feldberg: For myself, it is uncertainty. That's just, my hardwired, yeah 

Michael Walsh: we all do because we just don't know what's gonna happen. however, when you look at your past, do you see certainty or uncertainty?

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah, of course. It's always easy to connect the dots after the fact. Hindsight's 2020 as the saying goes. Absolutely.

Michael Walsh: That's right. and they talk about the Monday morning quarterbacks and all that stuff, but so here's a way to fool your mind. let's say I'm at 5 million and I want to go to 20 million, okay? Or let's say I'm 5 million, I want to go to 10 million. I actually aim, look at 20 million, not 10.

I gotta swing through the ball and if I'm swinging through the ball, so I say, what would life look like at 20 million? And then I look back on how I got there. When I look [00:52:00] back from the future, my mind doesn't know it's not real, and it takes out all the contingent planning that I would otherwise do for survival.

It literally parks my survival. 'cause it assumes I already got there. And then I look back and see how did I do it? Now I may not be certain as to how I did it, but what I've at least done is park the survival thing long enough to do that. And then I work backwards from that. If I'm looking forward, I'm constantly making plans for what happens if this, what happens if that, and I have to protect myself.

I have to protect my company, I have to protect my people. Survival's is a me or a we thing. Whereas if I can take survival off the map, so when I look back from the future to the present, I'm in a situation where I can start to draw a line that might go far closer to the future.

And then there are gonna be areas that I don't know. 

Controlled Experiments Mindset

Michael Walsh: So what I do is I say, how do we set controlled experiments in those areas? So I don't know what kind of people I should hire, for example, in my salespeople to go to the next level. Should I, hire [00:53:00] industry experts or should I hire practitioners that know?

there's so many different options you can hire in salespeople. So the thing is that normally when I try something, I've either succeeded or failed. That distinction's not very helpful. Whereas if I was a scientist, I would say I'd try the experiment and then I learn the outcome.

I may have a preference, but the truth is I get what I get and I accept what I get. It's not that I failed, I just got the outcome from that experiment. And it's okay, was the outcome what I want? And no. So how do I tweak the experiment to see if I can get closer to what I want?

And so what happens is I have a lot more freedom when I look from the future back to the present, and then I have a series of controlled experiments to quietly move my way back into that future. But again, looking from the future to the present and letting me draw my present into that pre. Thought through notion and then I take it one step at a time from there.

So, so I mean that at a high conceptual level that's part of what we do. But one of the biggest mistakes I really do see [00:54:00] people make is they set a goal and that's what they target for instead of targeting past it. And as a result, they really do end up, even if they hit the goal they have to redo everything.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I love how you're doing these thought experiments, and you're right. What is so fascinating about our brain, our system, how we look at things. We can do these thought experiments and the brain doesn't know if we're imagining or if it's actually happened. So in other words, it hasn't happened. But I can imagine that it has, and my brain thinks, oh, it's already happened, and we hear all kinds of stories from sports or other types of things I've used as myself.

Incredibly powerful. So I love how you're positioning that and how we can be approaching that. 

AI and the Next Age

Jeffrey Feldberg: Let me quickly ask you, and again, I'm throwing these questions at you that, oh, matter of fact, but it really could be an entire series, let alone an episode, artificial intelligence, where we stand today, where we're heading with it.

How has that impacted or perhaps not where you sit and with the founders that you're working with? What do you want us to know?

Michael Walsh: let's touch another tiny subject. Sure. I love [00:55:00] it. Okay. So with artificial intelligence, it continues to evolve and everything is changing constantly. The tools are constantly changing as we know. One of the things that I'm noticing is the junior who used to do tasks to gain facility to grow into an intermediate, some of those tasks are being replaced by ai.

And as a result, you're in a situation where the pathway to mastery from a junior role is getting a little clunky because people aren't sure. How do I get somebody who walks in? So, for example, in the medical field, they're using AI and robots to do a lot of different things that juniors used to do.

And because of that, juniors aren't gaining the skills needed to do those things. And watching a computer do something is very different than experiencing it yourself. so there are blocks that are happening in the evolution of many different professional services and skilled trades because AI is starting to take some of those lower level jobs.

That's it. Now we'll figure it out. We [00:56:00] always do. We just haven't yet. You know, uh, The other thing that I watch is I, I look at the impact of AI on use of, natural resources like electricity and things. My understanding is, over a period of time, I'm not gonna quote the details.

I think we went from 0.1% electricity use to 1% electricity use. Well, Apparently over the next period of time, we're gonna go from 1% to 10%. And apparently the world can only sustain 5%. We are gonna hit a limit on our data, which impacts everybody. There's gonna be side effects and impacts of this just this surge of AI that's evolving and the data centers that are being built that are needed to drive, just the computer power needed to actually run those things.

So from an infrastructure point of view, I'm fascinated to see how we figure it out. Now we will. Again, we're humans. We figure it out. We have the ability to adapt. But these are some of the problems that I'm watching. And I see, so am I a doomsayer? I'm [00:57:00] not a doomsayer on all this stuff.

I'm also not like, well, this is our savior. No, it's the next iteration. In fact the emergence of ai, draws a conclusion to the information age We had the industrial age, then we had the information age. Now we're dealing with the network world. We're actually at the edges of it. But with ai, the information age is pretty much over, because guess what?

Everybody will have information about everything. So it takes it off the mat. What'll happen is I think that the next age that we'll evolve into will be the age of creativity. In other words, how do we use this, multitudinous volume of information to actually improve who we are and what we do in life.

So, every age, continues to evolve from the last one. So, from an AI perspective, I think that, that's part of what we're gonna see is this age of creativity. And we're working through some of the bumps and hiccups in terms of how do we continue to grow specialists in different fields.

And where's the right cadence gonna come up with both in terms of, our skills, but also in terms of the infrastructure to [00:58:00] support ai. And who knows, it may be that AI will end up, there'll be a, a version that it sorts it out so that we can do it even with less power as opposed to needing the more power.

And, but again, we're not quite that far yet on this continuum.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yes, it is a story that continues to unfold. Be very interesting to see where that takes us. 

Core Business Priorities

Jeffrey Feldberg: And speaking of that, before we go into wrap mode, Michael, one question for you. It's actually a question with a question. Is there an important question that you and I haven't yet covered that you wanna share with you?

Both Nation?

Michael Walsh: The one question that comes to mind

Is if I had to summarize what the most important aspects of building a business are, might those be? and it's interesting 'cause my originally I was gonna say if there was one thing, 'cause we all like one thing, and I don't know why I always come up with two or three.

So even when I was looking at asking the question, I'm like, yeah, I don't have one thing. But, but, I do have two or three. So, one would be, just the [00:59:00] importance of relationships in business. People underestimate that. And it sounds so trivial, but it's not. It's got so much depth.

The second one is never underestimate the power of people,

And the time to learn about your people. And what you're gonna find is that, if I understand that relationships are critical and I really wanna understand the power of my people, then take the time to learn that that is the single task that'll give the biggest yield.

Constantly and sustainably. If I continue to just get to know people better as I continue to work and evolve and hire the right people and all the other stuff, then grow them and, develop my teams and managers and leaders and, all that, even if I'm looking for unexpected change, how do I deal with unexpected change?

It's all about the people. so that's what I'd say is relationships, really understand just the power that's there and really take the time to get to know your people. I think those would be the top three things that I would answer to [01:00:00] the unasked question.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And Deepp Nation, were you paying attention? That was not gold, that was platinum. Something for us to really think about. It's all about the people, not about us. It's all about the people. Absolutely love that. 

Back to the Future Advice

Jeffrey Feldberg: And with that said, Michael, we're now gonna go into wrap up mode. It's a tradition here in the Deep Wealth Podcast.

It's my honor and privilege where every guest I ask the same question. It's a fun question. Lemme set this up for you. When you think of the movie Back to the Future, you have a magical DeLorean car that will take you to any point in time. So now imagine, Michael, it's tomorrow morning. This is the fun part.

You look outside your window. Not only is the DeLorean car curbside, the door is open, it is waiting for you to hop on in which you do, and you're now gonna go to any point in your life. Perhaps it's Michael as a young child, a teenager, whatever point in time it would be. What would you tell your younger self in terms of life lessons or life wisdom or, Hey Michael, do this, but don't do that.

What would it sound like?

Michael Walsh: Wow. Okay. Another trivial [01:01:00] question, Jeffrey, you're amazing. two things that I would tell my younger self if, we're headed to the past is one, relax your fine the way you are. Two, just focus on how you can contribute to others. The rest will work out.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I absolutely love that, and so firstly, relax. You're fine the way you are.

Michael Walsh: Yep.

Jeffrey Feldberg: on how you can contribute to others. And it goes back to that theme that we've been developing here as a founder, not just a founder. It's also in our personal lives. Whoever said business isn't personal, never ran a business, it's all personal.

It's helping others, contributing to others being that resource, being that giver, not that taker nation. I hope you're taking notes on that. 

Where to Find Michael

Jeffrey Feldberg: And speaking of notes, Michael, someone in Deep Wealth Nation, they would like to work with you. They would like to have you as their coach, their mentor, their advisor, maybe have you come in, speak to the company, help them get to the next level.

Where would be the best place online for someone to reach you?

Michael Walsh: Probably our website, [01:02:00] which is www.walshbusinessgrowth.com. My company is Walsh Business Growth Institute and that's probably the easiest place, Walsh business growth.com.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Anti nation does not get any easier. This is all in the show notes. Go to the show notes as a point and click Reach out to Michael. As you're hearing, I'm definitely not the smartest guy in the room today. Absolutely love that. That's the way it should be. He's a smart guy, but this is not theory. We left the theory for the classroom.

It's from the trenches. And with that said, Michael, it's official. Congratulations. This is a wrap. As we love to say here at Deep Wealth. May you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. Thank you so much.

Michael Walsh: Thank you. 

Subscribe and Final Thanks

Jeffrey Feldberg: So there you have it, Deep Wealth Nation. 

What did you think? 

So with all that said and as we wrap it up, I have another question for you.

Actually, it's more of a personal favor. 

Did you find this episode helpful? 

Have you found other episodes of the Deep Wealth Podcast empowering and a game changer for your journey? 

And if you said yes, and I really hope you did, I have a small but really [01:03:00] meaningful way that you can actually help us out and keep these episodes coming to you.

Are you ready for it? 

The dramatic pause. I'll just wait a moment. Drumroll, please. Subscribe. Please subscribe to the Deep Wealth podcast on your favorite podcast channel. When you subscribe to the Deep Wealth Podcast, you're saving yourself time. Every episode automatically comes to you, and I want you to know that we meticulously craft Every one of our episodes to have impactful strategies, stories, expert insights that are designed to help you grow your profits, increase the value of your business, and yes, even optimize your post exit life and your life right now, whatever you want that to look like.

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So all that said. Thank you so much for listening. And remember your wealth isn't just about the money in the bank. It's about the depth of your journey and the impact that you're creating. So let's continue this journey together. And from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for listening to this episode.

And as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. 

Thank you so much. 

God bless.