279 Donna Lichaw

Jeffrey Feldberg: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast where you learn how to extract your business and personal Deep Wealth. 

I'm your host Jeffrey Feldberg. 

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Donna Lichaw is an internationally sought after executive coach, keynote speaker, and best selling author of The Leader's Journey, the much awaited follow up to The User's Journey. She helps high growth CEOs, executives, and teams level up their leadership so they can more effectively propel their business forward.

Donna works with leaders at companies like Google, Disney, Twitter, Microsoft, MailChimp, and Adobe, as [00:02:00] well as a plethora of high growth startups and non profits. She's been on the adjunct faculty at New York University, Northwestern University, Parsons School of Design and the School of Visual Arts.

She lives in Brooklyn, New York with her partner, kids, scrappy dog and cat, and she's an avid tin robot collector. 

Welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast. You heard the official introduction. We have a thought leader, an executive coach, a really smart individual who's driven towards success. But let me ask you this a bit of a rhetorical question, whether you're a C suite or an entrepreneur, founder, business owner, the rhetorical question is, would you like to accelerate your growth?

Do you want higher growth, higher profit? And of course you said, yes. Well, that's exactly what we're going to be talking about today. And, you know, maybe we'll talk about some companies you haven't heard of. I don't know, Google or. Disney or Microsoft to name a few, but that's all in the sweet spot of where our guest is.

So Donna, I'm going to put a stop in it right there. Welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast. Absolute pleasure to have you with us. And I'm curious, Donna, there's always a story behind the [00:03:00] story. What's your story? What got you from where you were to where you are today?

Donna Lichaw: It's great to be here, Jeffrey. I'll give you the part of the story that matters. So it started I've been working in the tech industry for long, long time at this point, probably over 25 years, although I've lost count at some point.

And where I found myself most a decade ago was working with really successful tech companies, brand names, everyone knows. And I was working on the product development side as a consultant. So I'd come in. And help teams really think about the stories behind the products that they were building, not for marketing purposes, but to make sure that the products themselves were that much more compelling and engaging when you thought about them and then actually used them.

So thinking of like an iPhone, like it works like magic. That's not just a value proposition. That's a selling point. It actually had to work like magic when it first launched or people[00:04:00] Love it. And so that's where I was working. And what I found happening over time is that as I was working with folks higher and higher up in leadership at more and more successful companies, I'd come in and we'd look at their products and they would tell me the same thing over and over again, which is honestly, our products are fine.

They're not going anywhere. We are. Insert whatever name of company you want to. We are so and so. We're doing all right. The problem we really have is not turning our customers into heroes of some, mythical story. It's we don't feel good and we're struggling and we're fighting and we can't get morale up and we can't get people to listen to us.

And we're engineering is fighting with product and it's getting kind of messy here. So. How do we be heroes is the question I got specifically one day from someone at a company known for [00:05:00] having very blunt people who work there, which I appreciate. And my initial reaction to him was, Oh no, you don't get to be the hero.

You're an executive. You're supposed to turn everyone else into heroes and you're supposed to bring them up and empower them. And this is not about you and get over it and, stop. sulking and move on., this was at a leadership offsite that day, and left there just realizing, oh, I didn't sound right.

Like everything I thought of leadership was just suddenly. Not working because here were these executives who were not feeling good and they didn't have the energy to do a really important job, which is bring their teams up to greatness have them continue to scale their companies and scale their products.

And that was when my story started I, just couldn't let go of that question of, can leaders be heroes too? And if so, how? Because I didn't think the answer was,[00:06:00] an executive saving everybody. That's not gonna do anyone any service either. that kind of set me off on my journey and eventually I realized that I'd, Be better serving my clients in an executive coaching and leadership development capacity than product development, because you can't build great products or great companies if you don't have great people that are, moving the company forward. So that's my story.

Jeffrey Feldberg: What a great origin story as you're going through that. And by the way, for listeners in the show notes, please go to the show notes. It's a point and click. Donna has a fabulous book, actually a few books. The latest one, The Leader's Journey, Transforming Your Leadership to Achieve the Extraordinary. And as you give me that origin story, now it makes sense because I love what you did with the book.

You have part one, identity, part two, superpowers. So the superpowers tying into the hero theme, then the mission, then the impact. And so it's now starting to come together in terms of where that came from. But let me ask you this. I mean, you've worked with what I call the royalty of business, all the big logos.

You've been [00:07:00] there, you've been working with them. Perhaps in the beginning, let's not talk about where they got to and maybe where they're floundering and they needed your help. What were they doing? What did you see for their secret sauce in the early days that as entrepreneurs, business owners, founders, even from a startup or to an established business that we could really learn from that royalty of business to jumpstart our growth, to take it to the next level.

What were they doing that perhaps not everyone sees or does?

Donna Lichaw: That's a great question. And I'll tell you what they were doing is what they need to get back to doing to

Jeffrey Feldberg: Mm hmm. Mm 

Donna Lichaw: what they want to do, which is in the early days, they. Really did a great job of doing what I was just talking about, which is building and creating superheroes who worked these companies.

And when, and I'll qualify what I mean by a superhero in this case, which is you are at your best as a leader when you have three things, an [00:08:00] identity,

A mission, and a goal.

And superpowers in whatever order you want. Identity is clarity on who you are and it's kind of all of it combined. What you're great at and where you're going.

Mission is really being specific on the vision. of where you're going, the difference you're going to create in the world and how you're going to get there. And your superpowers is what makes you absolutely special. And I include in that kryptonite as well. And when you've got that combination down, you can most powerfully make an impact internally at your company and externally around the world.

And these Tech companies that I've spent my career growing up with were incredible early on at empowering folks who worked for them to find those things, to really get clear on who they were, what was special [00:09:00] about them, what impact they wanted to make inside the team, inside the company, across the world, and then empowering them to do so from an individual contributor up to the executive.

level. And that is, through training and onward, but especially letting them do what excited them most and really nurturing people for the long run too.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so Donna, as you're talking about that, I have all these thoughts that are running through my mind. I want to bounce them by you. And you can tell me, Jeffrey, yeah, you're on base with that or not even close. So chapter three, you talk about activating your superpowers and then in chapter four, it's managing your kryptonite.

And as we're talking through this. What's really coming to mind to activate the superpowers, I don't need to be a founder or someone in the C suite or a business owner. It could be an employee, it could be a team member. And my personal belief is that every single one of us, we were born with a superpower.

Our mission in life is number one, to find that superpower, discover what that [00:10:00] is. And then number two, it's not only our responsibility, but our duty. To take that and share it with the world. But then at the same time, where most people get bogged down from what I see again, at DataPoint01, Jeffrey here, is that with that superpower, we often don't know what our kryptonite is and best of intentions, we get bogged down and maybe get involved in things that we shouldn't be doing because it's not our superpowers, our kryptonite.

How am I doing with that? On base, off base, what do you think?

Donna Lichaw: Yeah, they exist on a spectrum, superpowers and kryptonite. So we are all at our best when we are using our superpowers. So the book I go in depth into superheroes as metaphor for great leaders. And a lot of that is, because in my product development work, what I was always helping companies see is, okay, your customers, they can be a hero.

And I'd use storytelling metaphor there and movie metaphor of like how your, customers [00:11:00] overcome their obstacle and slay their dragons for internally. Leadership, and in life, you really not need to not just be a hero, but a superhero. And superheroes have superpowers and they have kryptonite and they are often on a continuum with one another, and they are often one in the same.

And so for example in the book a bit, which is, let's say you're a very quiet CEO, they do exist, but when you are or an executive, even, you know,

Jeffrey Feldberg: Mm 

Donna Lichaw: That's not the typical model of what you would think of as a high powered executive, or Even a founder of a company are supposed to be loud and opinionated and decisive and speak up and command the room and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But you know, you could think it's kryptonite. And if you feel bad about how quiet you are, you're going to [00:12:00] constantly feel terrible. And then you're going to inadvertently be more quiet. And then people are going to be wondering, why did we just promote you? Or why did we just give you all this money?

We really had faith in your company. We don't understand why you're so quiet. And so when you can see something, a behavior that maybe you're ashamed of. That you think is holding you back, that very well might be holding you back when you can really see it for what it is, which is something that you're very good at doing.

In other words, a superpower, then you can. Look back, see how that behavior has served you, and then figure out what to do with it and how to use it for good to extend the metaphor. So let's say you're really quiet. It might be, well, you're that one in meetings that just sits back and thinks about things.

And then when the time is right, you ask really good questions like, [00:13:00] great. So what does. Thinking let you do, well, let's say you troubleshoot scenarios in your head while you're thinking, okay, awesome. Or let's say thinking gives your team space to come up with cool ideas or thinking makes them think that you trust them or whatever it is.

So you have to really embrace things that you think are kryptonite, but they're probably your leadership superpowers that you just don't realize they're superpowers. Once you do, then you have to figure out how to balance them and how to use them for good. Because if you're quiet all the time, that's going to be a problem, but

you can't just try to be loud is my point.

Jeffrey Feldberg: you read my mind because I'm sure listeners are thinking, okay, yeah, I hear you on the superpower, but where do I look? What do I do? How do I find it? And I know social programming, it's such that, well, you can't be a show off. You can't be bragging and you got to be a little bit more modest.

So a lot of [00:14:00] times we don't see what's right in front of us. So how do we, or where do we. Find our actual superpowers that are right in front of us, but at least to us, to our eyes, it's invisible. What would you suggest?

Donna Lichaw: So there are a couple of ways to do it. And one way is to look at, so to start with a problem, let's say, so, I'll give you a different example, a CEO I work with, and this is often maybe a more common problem than the opposite I'm trying not to generalize here.

I think maybe most CEOs I work with have this, of this challenge, which is thinking out loud to process.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Okay.

Donna Lichaw: And so you. You might know it's a problem because people tell you, 

Jeffrey Feldberg: hmm. 

Donna Lichaw: you ask and receive feedback from those you work with, or maybe you're not very good at feedback and a trusted advisor just told you so, or you might realize it's a problem by noticing, hey and this is where I help.

A lot of the clients I work with, [00:15:00] which is, all right, your team is not performing and you're coming to me and saying, why don't they listen to me? I tell them what to do and they're not following my orders, which is the whole other problem. I could come to you and say, oh yes, you need to use X, Y, and Z management framework.

Here's Harvard Business Review article about it. Learn it. Let's talk about it next week. And I promise you, you're not going to learn it and you're not going to. Implement it and chances are you have an MBA already and you know all this stuff. And so if we look at really unpack, all right, what are the team dynamics that are at play?

What happens when no one's listening to you? Oh, well, you're giving them answers. Okay. How much does that happen? Oh, every single meeting, you're constantly solving their problems for them. Why is that? There has to be a reason you default to that, and it could be you hate your team and you don't trust them.

That's a problem. But [00:16:00] oftentimes I work with founders and they're like, Oh I'm just thinking out loud. I didn't actually mean for them to go implement all these things. I was just. Spitballing. And once we can get down to really the root of the problem, realize, okay, when you spitball, no one listens to you.

Therefore, when you are asking them to do something, they don't hear you.

We have to just go back to the root and figure out how to. fix that. So it's a long way of saying the way to find your superpowers or kryptonite is to open your eyes 

and to look. So either you ask, you talk to people, you find out what's working, what could be better, or you look at dynamics, you find out what's happening, what's in the way and how to fix it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Donna, what I like about that process is when we go to people, and studies have shown this, all these scientific studies, these psychological studies, when we go to people, we're open, we're vulnerable. Hey Donna, I was thinking, I bet Donna, just to use your example, I'm talking out loud sometimes, it probably drives you nuts and [00:17:00] it gets lost in translation what I'm trying to say.

Am I on base with that? Because I'm trying to figure out what my superpowers are, what my kryptonite is, what do you say? If I'm opening myself up, chances are you're going to say, well, hey Jeffrey. Now that I've shared that with you, what would you say about me? What have you noticed about me? And we started building this culture of trust and really celebrating our superpowers and really supporting each other.

Do you find that happens in the right kind of environment with the teams?

Donna Lichaw: Absolutely. It doesn't happen enough, and this is what I work with a lot of teams to cultivate, and Learn how to do and then continue onward, which is not so much, you don't wanna lead the witness in a way of I promise you, if you go to someone and you start saying, oh, I'm too loud, r n i, you're gonna plant that seed in their head, , and then, they're going to respond by saying, oh no, that's not true, because people just don't wanna be mean and want you to feel better.

But the trick is to find out. What's working and what could be even better [00:18:00] and the what could be even better. It's almost it's a type of gap analysis, I would say, which is, it has to be rooted in our shared goals. So hey I know as a team where this year we're trying to build world class executive team to, Take our company to the next level and increase ARR, X, Y, and Z, whatever your numbers are.

So I know we're all focused on this, we're excited. I want to know how I'm doing as your CEO what's working? Tell me what's working. And you ask people for actual stories. So it's almost like reverse engineering feedback. good feedback is timely. It's specific. It's observable. It's behavioral and it's causal.

It has impact. When you did, when you thanked everyone at the meeting last week, I noticed everyone smiled [00:19:00] and there was so Many fewer arguments after that. That was cool. So feedback can be for good things too, and you can ask for it from other people. So you want them to give you stories of what's working and then it becomes a creative endeavor of what could be even better?

Not what are my faults? What do I suck at? What do you hate about me? 

Jeffrey Feldberg: Take 

Donna Lichaw: What could be even better? Yeah.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so Donald, let me ask you this because I know you do both executive coaching and team coaching. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so success always leaves clues as does failure. And we can learn oftentimes more from failure than we can from success. But let me ask you this.

When you look to the leaders, whether that be someone who's a hired gun in the C suite or it's a founder, entrepreneur, that's really successful and absolutely terrific leader in his or her own style that really suits them, are there common characteristics that you're seeing? From one company or one leader to another leader that you can share with us in terms [00:20:00] of strategies that we can think about?

Donna Lichaw: Yeah, in terms of I want to give you success strategies. Is that okay? Because I know that you're asking about, okay, so the most effective thing. That you can do when especially you've passed your comfort zone, if you are, and this is why love, and I only work with high growth founders and executives, which is when you are hitting against your edge of comfort and doing something very uncomfortable, like your company's doubling in size or doubling in revenue or anything like that, it can be scary and uncomfortable and it can.

feel like to catch up, you need to be something different than you are. Oh, I now need to be like a real series A founder. Ah, now I need to be this kind of executive. But the best thing that you can do is to, and this is where the superhero metaphor comes into play [00:21:00] a lot, which is you don't try to be something that you're not.

You don't fight your super. Powers. You might not even want to fight your kryptonite, but if you can, and it's cliche, but it works. If you can be more of who you really are and pave that path of, okay, what got me here was I was an incredible engineer and I had a Keen eye for analytical analysis that was of this type and now as CEO, I know I'm not supposed to be in spreadsheets anymore, so I got to get out of there, but analysis is my superpower.

So you have to figure out how to transpose what got you here. to something that's going to get you there. Cause the old adage that, what got you here won't get you there. It's true. On the one hand, if you keep doing the same thing, you're not going to grow, but it's a little counterintuitive. What [00:22:00] got you here will also get you there if you figure out how to leverage it.

So that's the biggest thing. Don't try to be what you're not. It's a waste of time. And I promise you, you will suck at it and fail, but be more of who you are.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Interesting. As you're saying, and I'm probably going to botch this quote. It was Oscar Wilde who said something like, be yourself. Everyone else has already taken. So just going to who you are and just being in your comfort zone of what you really are, not trying to pretend to be what someone should be, just be yourself.

Show up. Sounds like that goes a long way.

Donna Lichaw: Yeah. and by, and I need to qualify that it doesn't mean be a jerk. Often the meanest CEOs I work with don't realize that they're being mean and they're actually afraid of something or something scares them and then they overcompensate and that's when they do things that their team does not appreciate or that turns people away.

So I'm not saying be a jerk, be more of who you are, just be a jerk, no, or be Selfish or anything like that, but really figure [00:23:00] out what you love, what motivates you, what lights you up, what's worked for you in the past, what has gotten you to the point that you're at, which is if you're an executive or a founder and you're at all successful and you're on the precipice of.

Creating even more success. Something's working, so don't throw it all away. Just figure out what it is and how to transfer it to the next level. That's key. It's so much less energy. It's so much more effective. And it feels good and people respond to it. And that's when you see things like teams coalescing or people connecting with you more, doing better work, performing better, numbers are better.

Everything's better.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So be your authentic self is really the takeaway here and just tap into that passion. Most people really at the heart of it are great people. They're good people. Sometimes our environment around us, the circumstances perhaps doesn't [00:24:00] bring out the best in us, but if we can just get beyond that of who we really are, our authentic self show up with that every day, we start to make a difference.

So Donna, let me ask you this because you've been around success and I imagine there's a listener who I'm thinking of right now who's saying, okay, Donna, Jeffrey, this is great. I'm a terrific leader. I have a successful company. We are number one in our industry. We continue to grow and we've been growing year over year.

And may that company, may that individual, that owner, founder, leader, continue to do that. But what have you seen from the companies that were at the top of their game, who just lost it? And no longer there, maybe they're out of business, or they're a very distant last or second or whatever the case may be.

What happened to them that you can give us as a heads up, hey, success is great, but as I like to say, sadly and ironically, the seeds of our future failure are in today's success if we don't handle that success in the right way. So what do we do to keep on top from what you've seen?

Donna Lichaw: I'm going to address [00:25:00] that from. An internal perspective, because externally, we know the answer to that, which is innovate innovate. Always keep up with your customers, innovate more products, more services, diversify, acquire, do what you need to do to keep your customers growing with you. I work with a lot of companies for years where they've got that.

They've got the innovation strategy and the product growth and all of that. And what I've seen happen internally is that innovation, that capacity to not just be your own authentic self as a leader, but the capacity of cultivating it. Within your team and everyone who works for you, when you figure that out, you will continually re energize everyone to not just keep up with your customers, but to be really [00:26:00] excited to work with you and to keep innovating and inventing really cool, amazing stuff and doing a great job and being really excited to work there.

So you need people to feel as amazing as you do doing your job. Doing their job, doing your job. When you get to a point where you've grown so big and ROI customers, yes, we're innovating, yes, we have our frameworks, we have all this, but people on the ground are frustrated. You've got attrition.

And cost of hiring, rehiring, I mean, it's hemorrhaging, money at that point.

And you've got low morale. You have people not doing a great job. You have people just, it's not as effective and performance is not what you want it to be. So, this is, I think coming full circle, this is where I first started with my work, which is [00:27:00] all right. Yes. You want to keep growing your business.

Customers need to be the hero. You have to keep serving them in greater and more exciting ways. But if you're not doing that internally as well, you're going to be fighting yourself. You can still grow, but you're not going to grow at the pace that you could have, or you're going to. All I need to level set and figure things out.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So it sounds like the only thing constant is change itself. Just always being on the lookout and always moving forward, looking within on that innovation side within the team, not just externally to really make that difference.

Donna Lichaw: Change itself and also energy. I mean, this is going to sound so woo, but this is why I mostly work with CEOs and executive teams now, because, there was a time when I would be brought in and let's say middle manager level, or even. Sort of lower level executive at certain companies and, they'd be dispirited and cranky and can work with me?

I think I need to be a better [00:28:00] leader. And we'd hit up against wall at some point. Which was culture is established from the top, from the CEO down. And so now, especially up to, I'd say up to midsize companies, and that could be anywhere from up to thousand people, or even billion dollar companies I'll work at the c e o level or I, won't really work with you if it's a Google, I'm not working with the c e o, so I'm working with an executive of some organization or the head of some organization there.

But if it's anything up to mid-size, it has to come from the c e o. If the c e o is not excited to come to work every day and not filled with I want to say joy and excitement, it's not all roses and sparkles, not saying that, but if they're not pumped and excited and a little bit scared, you have to be scared, that fuels you too.

If you're not raring to go, if you're not appreciating your faults, your [00:29:00] shortcomings, your strengths, your dreams, and you're not appreciating that in everyone else, it trickles down to your company and it's really hard to get the best out of people. You'll have a, an okay sort of corporate environment where you have cogs doing their job, but you're not going to have that kind of growth that you used to have or that you want to be having.

it has to come from within, it has to come from as high up as possible. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Makes so much sense, really the company's a reflection of us as a founder or the entrepreneur or the CEO. We're setting the tempo, the pace, the emotionality of it, the mindset is coming from us. But let me ask you this, Donna, so a listener, hopefully again, they'll go to the show notes, they'll get the book, they'll go through actually both books and really begin to do that.

But I know they're busy and listen, a book that's read terrific if you don't read it a whole other story. But even once you've read a book to actually execute and implement, that's a whole other ballgame that we're talking about. So when a leader comes to you and says, okay, Donna, I really want to be top of my game, take my company to the [00:30:00] next level.

So, what's your process like when you begin that coaching? What does it look like? How long does it take?

Donna Lichaw: So the process is it's bespoke. no two founders, no two executives are alike. And one, all my stuff is available free online. There's the book that you can pay for, which is great. And then all my tools are free online of newsletter, blog posts. And so you can do it all yourself if you want to.

When I work. With a founder, what I do initially is figure out first where they're going,

Because without clarity on where they're going one year, three years onwards, how are we going to know when we get there? So first we figure out where they're going, we figure out what they have at their disposal to get there, what the gaps are, what's in the way, who's going to join them along their journey.

So it's, Rare, and I would say [00:31:00] probably never happens where I'll work with a CEO and I won't also at some point in one way, shape, or form work with their team as well, because a CEO, this is where the superhero metaphor, well, it falls short in the sense that a CEO who's doing the work for everyone, that's going to fail, but every superhero has friends and super friends and teams.

So the metaphor sticks that way too, but yeah, we figure out what resources you have to do your job, what behaviors are getting in your way, what internal monologues and mindsets are in your way, what we need to shift, what we need to change, what we need to learn, what we need to adopt. And we start working.

One little metaphor I love for this is You could knock over the Empire State Building, I think the number is 29 dominoes. So if you, and starting with a tiny little, I don't know, what, one centimeter or one inch domino, if you had 29, you [00:32:00] can Google this, it's I'm sure there's video or something, but if you started with like a tiny little domino and then each one got, bigger and bigger, all you needed was 29 to knock over the Empire State Building.

I think each one doubles in size. And so we start small. You want to have small wins, make sure. You're on the right track. I also, with the tech background, we have a few adages. One, there's run for, you know, break things and run fast, but like, that's not actually true. The other one is learn.

So try, learn, try, learn, try, learn. And there's a lot of failure in there. So we try small things, we go. Then at some point early on, we, and also using sort of business meta for here or product development for, which is you don't build products without being clear on your customers and what they need.

So as soon as you can, you get out of the building and you talk to your customers and figure out how do they love your products, what are they doing with them or what do they need more of? And. [00:33:00] It's the same thing with any CEO I work with. So as soon as we can, we get out of their head and work with their team and figure out what I was saying earlier, what's working really well about their leadership and how they're showing up and what could be even better.

And we attach all that to metrics and measures for success, not in any kind of creepy way, but just in a way of like, how do we know things are changing? And how do we know this is having a measurable impact on your business? And then the best metaphor there is like, you know, tennis coach. You could have a tennis coach who teaches classes.

You want to learn how to play tennis? Great, take a class or a tennis coach who works with Serena Williams, who wants to be the greatest of all time. And that's the world in which I play. And so that tennis coach is going to come to your games, is going to tell you what they see, is going to call it, is going to [00:34:00] do whatever it takes to help you get the job done.

And That's the gist of it. So we try things, we measure, we learn, we try, and you have to constantly be growing and learning and changing, paradoxically becoming more of who you are. And we're making an impact. So that's, the gist of it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Love that. So really it's showing up as our authentic self, like we spoke about earlier. And ideally you're working with both the leader as well as the team with the leader, that old saying, when the team works, the dream works.

Love that quote. So you're doing that, but then you're also what gets measured, what gets done. So you have all the KPIs just to make sure that we can track what's happening, what's not happening, look at that. And typically, you know, I know every company is different and their journey is their journey. But ballpark wise, Donna, in terms of timing.

How long do we have to wait till we start seeing some results? Let's assume that we're giving this everything that we have the right time and attention. What does that look like timing wise?

Donna Lichaw: So [00:35:00] timing wise, and I've been tracking this that's for years, what we start seeing is I think in quarters, probably just because I work in business, but I think in seasons too, so I probably would be thinking like this anyway, but what I find is that the first Kwanako Three months, we're really getting clear on what would be game changing for you, your team, and your business.

And it starts with you, because if it's not game changing for you, it's going to fail as well. So first three months, we're getting clear on what that is. We're already running out the door and Running tests and you're trying things, you're coming back, seeing how it's going, seeing what impact it's making on your team.

Next three months, you're really starting to shift how you work. And so overall, within the first six months, if you've not already. Significantly shifted how you're working, then there's a challenge. And I would say that's only ever happened probably once. And probably there's some kind of trauma involved or something that's [00:36:00] really holding you back.

At which case we bring a therapist in because By six months, you have to be changing how you think and how you are with your team and with your company. What happens after that is. You need another six months to really have it become a part of how you are. And so this is what I learned early on, where I used to work with clients for six months and they would be amazing.

And they'd be so happy. And they were like, Oh my God, my life has changed. And my relationship with my partner at home is better. And my kids are happy. Everyone's happy. And my business is, doubled and whatever. And then I'd hear from their team three months later, Oh my God, they went back to them.

They're old ways. And so for that reason, I don't work with you for less than a year now. So you need those next six months to really integrate everything and have it become part of your muscle memory so that you're not even thinking about it. And that's thinking like a journey [00:37:00] like a Marvel movie, I guess that's episode one, or maybe that's.

I don't know which one it is, but no, that's the arc. That's the arc of it. So three months to start getting clear and seeing change, six months and you've changed how you work, 12 months, you've more so changed how you think and how you are and it's become a part of you.

Jeffrey Feldberg: As you're talking about that, I'm going back in the book, you have, it's an image and you'll correct me if I'm not quite putting it out there in the right way, but you have this image and so you have the superhero and then you have the impact. So you know what your personal impact is going to be.

And then in order, and it was the right order, it was okay, team, then business. And then you get all that right, then the world. And it really makes a lot of sense as you're talking about really your secret sauce of how you're walking a leader, the leader's team, the company, from day one to a year later to really get to the right place, but also stay there, it makes a lot of sense.

And let me ask you this, before we go into wrap up mode, if there's [00:38:00] one action that a listener could take today, so when we're done, before they hop onto the next call or email or meeting, if someone could take one action that could really move the dial, make a difference for them, for the business, what would that be?

Donna Lichaw: So one action that would change, so I'm going to bring us back to dominoes, little dominoes again, first it's, I wish it could be, yeah, come work with me. It's great. But it's not that, which is one action. Think about what's working.

with your leadership and bonus points if you want to extend it.

Think about someone on your team who's driving you nuts

And really feels oh, they're getting in our way and I don't know how to manage them. Think about what you appreciate. And I don't mean put lipstick on this pretend like it's not a challenge, but look at what's working there as well.

When you're not looking [00:39:00] for it, 

Jeffrey Feldberg: hmm. 

Donna Lichaw: you just can't see it. And if you can't see it, you can't amplify it. And so that's, the tiniest thing. If you want to extend that, I'm always up for a conversation. I love, love, love having conversations with founders, executives who are looking to scale themselves at the rate that they're scaling their business.

Hit me up for a conversation. I do it for a living now.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely. Let's lose those golden handcuffs, get that lifestyle that you started the business for in the first place and figure out how to really fire yourself to put better people in place to do what you're doing even better. you know what, that's a whole series. That's a whole series, Donna, that

Donna Lichaw: that's next level is letting go of all the crap that you're good at. Yes.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Easier said than done, but yes. Let me ask you this. I have the honor, I have the privilege for every guest. We have this ritual here at the Deep Wealth Podcast, and this is where I'll set up this little thought experiment. It's a fun one.

It's a fun [00:40:00] question. So here it is. Thank you. When you think of the movie Back to the Future, you have that magical DeLorean car that will take you to any point in time. So the fun part, Donna, is this. It's tomorrow morning, you look outside your window, not only is the DeLorean car there, the door is open, it's waiting for you to hop on in, which you do.

And you're now gonna go back to any point in your life. Donna, as a young child, a teenager, whatever point in time that would be. What would you tell your younger self in terms of, Hey, Donna, here's some life wisdom or some life lessons, or, Hey, do this, but don't do that. What would that sound like?

Donna Lichaw: I love this question. it's funny too, cause you haven't read first book, which was on product development and business strategy, and that had a whole thing on back to the future. So I'm a big fan and I absolutely love this question. So, I would probably tell her what I've been telling you in our conversation today, which is, hey, all the things that everyone's telling you to be and to think and why aren't you more like this and why aren't you more like that and look [00:41:00] at this person, this kid is so successful and how come you're, not doing this in school.

None of that matters. Whatever you are, be more of that, do more of that. You're pretty great, you just don't know it yet, and you don't know how to use what you got. So ignore the skeptics and ignore everyone who really is just looking out for you and wants you to be safe and successful. The less you listen to them, the more successful you're going to be.

That's it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Isn't that always the case, but what terrific advice. You're already great. You just don't know it. Wow. Just take a look at what's already there. Appreciate who you are, where you've come, where you're going. That's terrific.

Donna Lichaw: it's a paradoxical metaphor for being a founder. It's like a little secret, which is the founders I work with on the outside, you seem so successful. You created a company, you scaled a company you, are figuring out how to take your company to the next level. You've created this team, you've [00:42:00] done all these things, but deep down, you're So scared and feel like you're not set up to do this or you're not what you're supposed to be, or am I really a CEO?

Am I not? Everyone says I should be like this and my board says this and my investors say this and it's yeah, when you can see how great you really are and embrace that, you can shed those shackles and really hit the ground running and do everything you want to do.

Jeffrey Feldberg: It's terrific advice. And before we wrap up for a listener, Donna, they have a question and I know what you just said, Hey, hit me up. Let's ask some questions. Let's get some answers. Let's talk. Where would be the best place for someone to find you online?

Donna Lichaw: So the best place to find me online is my website, donnalishau. com, and I'm sure we'll put that in the show notes. a lot of people have their funnels and, sign up for this and join me for this webinar and then I'm doing this and all that. And it took me years [00:43:00] to realize that I just, Those are not my superpowers and I am at my best when I'm in conversation. So find me on my website. All of my stuff is for free. And if you want a deeper conversation and see how you can transform yourself to take your business to the next level, hit me up and let's, chat. I'm in my happy spot.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely terrific. And for our listeners, it doesn't get any easier. Go to the show notes. It's a point and click you're there and on Donna's website. You can't miss it. Let's chat. Just click on that and off you go. And why not? And hear from Donna and her secret sauce of how it can take you, your company, your vision, your dreams to the next level.

Well, Donna, it's official. It's a wrap. Congratulations. And as we close things out, as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. Thank you so much.

Donna Lichaw: Thank you, Jeffrey. This was delightful. 

Sharon S.: The Deep Wealth Experience was definitely a game-changer for me. 

Lyn M.: This course is one of the best investments you will ever make because you will get an ROI of a [00:44:00] hundred times that. Anybody who doesn't go through it will lose millions. 

Kam H.: If you don't have time for this program, you'll never have time for a successful liquidity 

Sharon S.: It was the best value of any business course I've ever taken. The money was very well spent.

Lyn M.: Compared to when we first began, today I feel better prepared, but in some respects, may be less prepared, not because of the course, but because the course brought to light so many things that I thought we were on top of that we need to fix. 

Kam H.: I 100% believe there's never a great time for a business owner to allocate extra hours into his or her week or day. So it's an investment that will yield results today. I thought I will reap the benefit of this program in three to five years down the road. But as soon as I stepped forward into the program, my mind changed immediately. 

Sharon S.: There was so much value in the experience that the time I invested paid back so [00:45:00] much for the energy that was expended. 

Lyn M.: The Deep Wealth Experience compared to other programs is the top. What we learned is very practical. Sometimes you learn stuff that it's great to learn, but you never use it. The stuff we learned from Deep Wealth Experience, I believe it's going to benefit us a boatload.

Kam H.: I've done an executive MBA. I've worked for billion-dollar companies before. I've worked for smaller companies before I started my business. I've been running my business successfully now for getting close to a decade. We're on a growth trajectory. Reflecting back on the Deep Wealth, I knew less than 10% what I know now, maybe close to 1% even. 

Sharon S.: Hands down the best program in which I've ever participated. And we've done a lot of different things over the years. We've been in other mastermind groups, gone to many seminars, workshops, conferences, retreats, read books. This was so different. I haven't had an experience that's anything close to this in all the years that we've been at this.

[00:46:00] It's five-star, A-plus.

Kam H.: I would highly recommend it to any super busy business owner out there.

Deep Wealth is an accurate name for it. This program leads to deeper wealth and happier wealth, not just deeper wealth. I don't think there's a dollar value that could be associated with such an experience and knowledge that could be applied today and forever. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: Are you leaving millions on the table? 

Please visit www.deepwealth.com/success to learn more.

 If you're not on my email list, you'll want to be. Sign up at www.deepwealth.com/podcast. And if you enjoyed this episode, if it added value, if you walked away with some new insights and strategies, please leave a review on your favorite podcast channel. Reviews help us reach new listeners, grow the show. And continue to create content that you'll enjoy and as we wrap up this episode as always please stay healthy and safe.[00:47:00]