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Nov. 14, 2022

Jonathan Zacks On How To Maximize EBITDA By Minimize No Show Appointments (#177)

Jonathan Zacks On How To Maximize EBITDA By Minimize No Show Appointments (#177)

“Research less try more.” - Jonathan Zacks

Jonathan is on a mission to decimate no-show appointments. After running an appointment-based business for a decade, he co-founded GoReminders which increases business revenue and cuts wasted staff time with automated appointment reminders & online booking. Jonathan runs Growth & Marketing for GoReminders and loves helping small businesses with automation and communication.

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[00:00:00] Jeffrey Feldberg: Welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast where you learn how to extract your business and personal Deep Wealth.

I'm your host Jeffrey Feldberg.

This podcast is brought to you by Deep Wealth and the 90-day Deep Wealth Experience.

When it comes to your business deep wealth, your exit or liquidity event is the most important financial decision of your life.

But unfortunately, up to 90% of liquidity events fail. Think about all that time and your hard earned money wasted.

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I should know. I said "no" to a seven-figure offer. And "yes" to mastering the art and the science of a liquidity event. Two years later, I said "yes" to a different buyer with a nine figure deal.

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Let the 90-day Deep Wealth Experience and the 9-step roadmap of preparation help you capture the best deal instead of any deal.

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Jonathan Zacks is on a mission to decimate no-show appointments. After running an appointment-based business for a decade, he co-founded GoReminders, which increases business revenue and cuts wasted staff time with automated appointment reminders and online booking. Jonathan runs growth and marketing for GoReminders and loves helping small businesses with automation and communication.

Welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast. And as usual, I have a another terrific episode and guests lined up for you today. So all your business owners out there, I want you to go back to a point in time, and maybe it was even today, or it was yesterday and you or your team, you've lined up a really important sales call. You're excited about this, or maybe it's even a customer service call, whatever the case may be. It's an important call. You've booked off the time in your calendar. You've prepared. You've made the time you, made the effort. And then one of two things happens a few minutes before the call, you get some kind of notification. I can't make it, or even worse.

You go to the call, maybe even you're going in person and you know what the person's not there, or, oh, I wasn't ready, not going to happen today. And they cancel on you. Isn't that the most frustrating thing in the world? Today we're going to give you some terrific insights with our guests of what you can do, but I'm getting ahead of myself.

So Jonathan, such a pleasure to have you with us. Jonathan, there's always a story behind the story. What's your story? What brought you to where you are today?

[00:03:04] Jonathan Zacks: Sure. Thanks for having me. And in terms of what got me here, I have always been into building things and technology and trying to automate as much as possible.

I've had a business helping small businesses with technology for a couple of decades, IT support, building websites. And a lot of just streamlining office processes. And in that business, we had lots of appointments, some remote, some in person at my office, some at my client's offices. And one problem that came up, again and again, was appointment no-shows.

And then, I was building a few other products with a friend of mine and he experienced from a consumer side, the issue of appointment no-shows. And he got about an appointment he missed at an eye hospital a week earlier that he had made a year earlier and they wanted to know if he wanted to reschedule it because he didn't show up.

And it was just amazing to us. It seems like such a simple problem to solve and automate, essentially appointment reminders at its core to get him a notification ahead of time, rather than wasting the hospital's space, time of the physician nurses, receptionists, and then waste their time after to call up, call him up to say, hey, do you want to reschedule?

Maybe they've lost that revenue entirely because at that point he might just skip it, might reschedule for a few months later. And so it just seemed like when we did the math on how much revenue and time was being lost in wasted, due to no-shows. It was enormous.

And when I thought about it for my own business throughout the years, I realized yeah, this is a problem that we can solve. And pretty easily to start. And that's how we got into this, started with email reminders and then add a text reminder. And since then we built up GoReminders into more of a communication platform for anything from online booking, text blasts, email blasts, appointment reminders, obviously still and really just focused on the core problem of getting clients to show up for appointments at the right time, at the right place.

[00:05:00] Jeffrey Feldberg: Jonathan, I love that backstory because it's just such an entrepreneurial thing to do. I mean, we've all been there. Something happens. It frustrates the heck out of us and it's like Okay, hey, I'm not only am I going to solve this and solve it and fix it, but it can't just be me that it's happening to. Maybe I can help other people at lo and behold, here we are.

And you're on the podcast talking about this, but before we talk a little bit more about what we do, I would love to do a little bit of a deep dive on the psychology of the customers and the people that we're booking appointments with of presumably good intentions that just go bad. What's happening?

Why are we having these high cancellation rates in the first place what's going on? That they're even booking the appointment maybe in the back of their mind, they're even thinking, yeah, whatever. I'll just book it and I'm not going to go through with it. What's going on? What are some telltale signs and things that you think we should know?

[00:05:49] Jonathan Zacks: Sure. So, one thing to know is that there are many more reasons why someone will not show up to an appointment. Then there are solutions, the solutions we can talk about that for sure. There are basically a few making sure people want to get there, making sure people know about it, making sure people remember things like that, but in terms of why someone might not show up, it's such a wide variety.

And then I think that is a problem of why people have trouble thinking about potential solutions. Because for example, yesterday didn't use Google reminders for a meeting with someone I booked a week ago with a call with someone, sent them a calendar invite, and I noticed they hadn't confirmed it.

So I texted them to say, hey was that time not right? Or are you still good for tomorrow? And they were like, oh, I didn't get the calendar invite. Can you resend it? I'm like, sure. Okay. Where we sent the calendar invite and then they're like, oh, it was in my junk folder. So it was like that person had full intention of showing up to the meeting with me tomorrow.

And I just, knowing about no-shows, I'm like, let me text them. And it's just like it went to their junk folder, the invite. So it could be a junk folder. It could be that they just had a medical emergency, something with their family and they're all off schedule. And they mean to call, to tell you that they can't make an appointment but they forgot.

It could be that they got the invite, but it didn't automatically add to their calendar. It could be that they decided a week ago or two weeks ago that they really don't want to have this meeting. But they've been, they haven't gotten any communication from you to confirm it.

So there hasn't been any touch point and they want to tell you that they don't want to be there, but they're afraid of it and they're busy. And so therefore they just push it to last minute, and then they texts you at the moment and be like, hey, I can't make it. And there's a variety of excuses.

There's a ton of reasons from maybe they may, if at some appointment they have to pay for, they've decided it's too expensive. They don't want you, if it's something that they have to commit to a tattoo, maybe they've decided shoot, I really don't want this tattoo right now, but I think I do.

And it's a last minute. And then there's just like a double booked, people are over-committed. People are super busy and either never makes it into their calendars. Or it makes it in there at the wrong time because they wrote the wrong time down and there's all sorts of tactics of making sure, you know, repeating back having the person to repeat back what's the day, what's the time.

 It basically comes down to just people are busy, there can be confusion and things come up. But within that, it's just a millionaire reason.

[00:08:05] Jeffrey Feldberg: Fair enough. And obviously, it can be person-specific, company-specific, anything like you're saying in between, but I'm wondering as you're talking through that, and again, before you talk to us about what you're doing and how that's making a difference.

After we've booked the call or the appointment or the in-person thing, whatever it may be. What do you think we should be doing Jonathan, after he gets into the calendar between now that it's in the calendar and when the actual appointment is about to start, what are some things that we can do or put into the process to make sure that, hey, they don't forget about us.

They remember us and they're actually looking forward to the appointment.

[00:08:43] Jonathan Zacks: A few things that can be done in that window between when you make the appointment and when the appointment happens. So let's see, one of them is that you want to make sure you get confirmation from the person separate from that initial booking call, especially unless it's like a day out, but if it's more than a day or more than a few days we prefer text, but text, email, or text and emails. What will you recommend? So you know, some text and email asking the person, hey, just wanted to confirm, or please reply so you can confirm something like that. This can be manual. This can be through a system like ours either way, but getting the person to actually say that they will be there.

And to do that at a point where you have enough lead time that you can fill that slot. So if you do that a day ahead of the appointment, and that's just not enough time for your business, and that's not helpful for you, but if you can fill that appointment with three days, notice, then that's when you should do it.

The closest to the appointment that you can do it with enough time, that you'll be able to fill that slot. So that's one thing to ask for confirmation. At that point, I call it like having this crystal ball, like people are not going to show up. The trick is to know which people if you have 10 people and 10% of people are 20% of people, aren't showing you need to know which of those 10 people are not going to show up.

And so that's one of the tricks that asking for confirmation ahead of time, that will give you that, to be able to see into the future which person won't be there so you can fill that particular slot. Another thing is to really communicate the value of the appointment of what is the value that your client or customer or prospect is going to get out of that appointment. If during this appointment, we're going to XYZ or, after this appointment, you should have gotten level out whatever they're going to get out of the appointment, some sort of value-based reminder. And that can be a sort of a different value as the time goes on.

If you're sending a reminder a week before asking for confirmation and then an hour before, it might be something different that you say at each point. But always communicating the value, not just, hey, you have this appointment, get on the phone. But like, hey, I'm looking forward to it. Some sort of something that you think will have a positive reaction on their end that they'll say, oh yeah, like I really want to be there for this.

So those are the two main things asking for confirmation and value-based reminders. The rest of it is basically just are all the pieces there when you're sending reminders. Are you telling them where your meeting? If that's virtually a link to the zoom call or whatever platform you're using, are you telling them when you're meeting, are you in the same time zone and if not, make sure to communicate the time zone do they need to bring a form filled out?

Do they need to bring some information to the appointment? Do they need to complete something? Beforehand not only just brings, you know, bring identification but like maybe they had actually fill out a survey or a form, an intake form before the call. And if they don't do that or before the meeting, and if they don't do that could be 15 minutes delaying an appointment.

So all the pieces that are necessary for that appointment are born to communicate.

[00:11:39] Jeffrey Feldberg: And for our listeners, I want to put this in perspective because I know some of you are thinking, okay. Yeah. You know what, Jonathan sounds really nice. And as a good service and Jeffery, I hear you, but I'm busy and you know what a no-show is not such a big deal, so what most things are virtual these days. Anyways, we'll just rebook it. But let's take a step back because you're not just any place you're in the Deep Wealth community and in the Deep Wealth community, it's all about your liquidity event and your liquidity event is all about increasing your enterprise value and you're increasing your enterprise value through preparation.

And one of the things that you're doing in your preparation, it's helping you drive more revenue, otherwise known as growth and profits. So think of it this way. There's 1,440 minutes in a day. And I don't care if you're a gazillionaire or a royalty or not. No one can manufacture more minutes in the day. Everyone has the same number of minutes in a day.

So when someone cancels on you, the preparation time, you've just lost the actual appointment time. You've also just lost. You'll never get that back. So the opportunity cost, if we were to add up the opportunity to cost of all the canceled appointments at the last minute or who knows what else went on that could have been prevented.

It's staggering. It's huge. We could probably just retire off of that. So what Jonathan is talking about today, as you think about your business, as you think about your liquidity event, isn't something just to listen in passing. This is something to listen and to take action on. So Jonathan talked to us about GoReminders.

This is your company. How are you taking this problem of people just blowing off appointments? If I can just be blunt about it and making sure that doesn't happen, what does that look like? And how does that work with you?

[00:13:14] Jonathan Zacks: Sure. So, and to that point about the revenue, it's like we're working on a calculator to make that calculation much easier for people to do.

But yes, it's like when you're in it in the middle of it, oh, I get a free hour. I get some downtime. And, but when you step back and you do the calculations of how much time you're wasting, how much revenue potentially you're losing, it's not just that appointment. If that person is a recurring, they come monthly.

If that person doesn't come, they're much more likely to lose them as a customer if they miss one appointment. So that could be 12 times the value in the next year that you're missing from that person. Or if you're in real estate, it's obviously a much bigger purchase, things like that.

It's just missing one event in the whole timeline for purchasing or selling a home things like that can really add up. So in terms of GoReminders, what we're doing is basically everything that I talked about it is automated. So that's the main value of GoReminders is that setting up that schedule and potentially a different sequence for different kinds of appointments, if you need more lead time for certain ones, different messages, if people need to bring different kinds of things to different appointments you can do all this stuff manually, but it will take a lot of time.

Probably still worth it to do it manually, than not do it. But with GoReminders, it just makes it 10 times faster. And so you can set up your templates. It automatically pulls in the name, the date, the time, the location, zoom link, anything that you need for each appointment, it puts that into the reminders you can set up, one reminder to go out when the appointment is booked.

Another one to go out a week before the appointment, another a day before or an hour before if you schedule an appointment three days before, it's not going to send three reminders all at once, we'll skip the ones that it's already been passed. And so it's really just as I mentioned about value-based reminders, you can bake that into the template.

You can put whatever you want into the reminder messages. So you can really say whenever you need to say to your customers or clients to make sure that they see the value and the appointments and make sure that they want to show up and make sure that they know where and when to show up to these appointments.

And then you can do a variety of other things that come, that are all basically spokes off of this core eliminating no-shows mission, which is essentially okay, you're running late you just go to the appointment, you hit on a one-off message to the person to say, hey, I'm running late. Or they respond to you.

You can go in there and you can immediately respond back to them from within GoReminders. If you need to send a message to all your clients or a group of clients, you can do a text blast or an email blast from within GoReminders. If you want clients, you know, a lot of our users do not want people booking appointments on their calendar that they need to decide how -long for each customer, especially something like beauty, like hair or a tattoo, or even attorneys.

They want to decide exactly how long the appointment should be for each customer. But some people do want to give that opportunity. So we have online booking where people can send a link to their customers or clients to say, hey here are the times that are available at the time and you can book your own appointment.

Appointment request mode, where people get to pick three options and you get to approve it as the business.

[00:16:12] Jeffrey Feldberg: And Jonathan, it sounds like you're really covering all the different angles here. And so when your system sees an appointment, based on the template, send that out, or how do we have control of who sees what?

[00:16:22] Jonathan Zacks: Sure. So with GoReminders. We sync with Outlook and Google Calendar instantly the way that, that sinks as you enter the appointments and GoReminders GoReminders is like your master calendar, an appointment book for your business.

You can also put some of your personal things in there as well as if you wish, but essentially there's a lot of functionality that is complicated to do in Google Calendar outlook, you can't say text this person a reminder at certain times with this message you just can't do that.

And so that is all done in GoReminders and then it automatically instantly will sync to Google Calendar or outlook. And so if you have personal things in your Google Calendar and your outlook, you can see all your business things and your personal things on one calendar. And then you can click on, there's a link from it, if you need to edit an appointment, you just click it.

It opens up, GoReminders interface to edit that appointment. But the editing of appointments and the creating the appointments happen within GoReminders, unless it's a recurring appointment. And then it'll automatically get created on its own and automatically show up in any calendar, things like that.

 It's a sync to those calendars. There are some competitors who do it a two-way sync, but it gets complicated. They rely mostly on you formatting the text of the description very carefully. And the phone number might be out of line and it might be prefixed by some texts.

So historically we have just avoided that because one of the main selling points of Google reminders versus our competitors is that we are extremely easy to use. And so people come to us who might be going from pen and paper, or they're going from another solution that had too many problems.

 They're coming to us to look for a solution that just works. It works well. It's easy to get started And it just does the job that they're trying to do. And so with that, we have everything baked into the girl miners interface itself to make sure that it's smooth and super quick to just get your appointments in there.

And we take it from there just to enter the appointment and they automatically get reminded.

[00:18:16] Jeffrey Feldberg: So what I'm hearing you say is that really the hub is go reminder. So you go to GoReminders first. And that's where the booking takes place. That's where you're seeing your calendar and GoReminders because GoReminders is getting all your calendar information and bringing it into the system.

And that's really where your magic is happening, where all the automation behind the scenes and the templates and the texting and everything else is all taking place.

[00:18:41] Jonathan Zacks: Exactly.

[00:18:42] Jeffrey Feldberg: So for business owners who are doing their own booking right now, so they're not using any service and whatever it is, it could be Google Calendars.

It could be Outlookoffice 365, whatever the case may be. GoReminders is a no-brainer there. They're likely not taking the time to do all that automation and the reminders and the texting and everything else. But what about those business owners who are using some of the other calendar apps that are out there that do something similar but different?

What would you say to them of why GoReminders is something that they should be considering? Maybe something that they've overlooked with what they've been using?

[00:19:17] Jonathan Zacks: Sure. It really depends on which app you're coming from. A lot of, some of our competitors have way too much functionality and so it can get really confusing.

Other competitors, we're not the perfect fit for everyone. We are the perfect fit for a subset of people. And it's like many of these tools if you needed something that integrated heavily with Salesforce, for example. We are not that tool. But I would say if you are using something that you don't need a ton of other integrations with heavy-duty marketing and sales platforms, and you basically just need something to work well and make sure that you avoid the issues of some of the other pitfalls of some competitors are text reminders.

Might not get sound out at all. Maybe they only do email reminders or even text reminder gets sent out. You can't get replies. So that's a pitfall that is this Phantom no-show where someone might reply to a text reminder saying, oh shoot, I can't make it. That might be a week before they get a response saying, this doesn't accept replies, contact the business. And then they're like, oh man, like I just texted them. I'd have to do another step. Maybe they don't text it. They don't know show or they no show. And then you find out that they replied, but you never got the text. So if you're dealing with no-shows and you're using another platform, that's basically the sign of, okay, there might be something better out there. If you're already using a scheduling platform and people are not showing up, then it's either you're not doing the right schedule and the right messages, or the messages are not getting through. And so we, then another platform you might not be able to customize the messages.

The messages might only be prefab messages though. Like some of our bigger, some of the bigger companies that we compete with, that's a limitation of theirs is you can't customize the reminder message. Another is that you can't, it might not be able to get replies. Another is you might be able to only send one message.

So things like that, if you're running into no-show issues and you have a booking platform then definitely check out the reminders because it might be might be a way to solve that.

[00:21:15] Jeffrey Feldberg: I love it. And for the business owners out there. I hope you were paying close attention because you know what, you don't hear it all that often.

But Jonathan is saying, hey, this is what we do. This is what we're really good at. This is what we're not, and we're not going to be for everyone. But what we do really well. And if this is where you are, and this is what we're doing, we're probably the best fit for you. And I think as business owners, we can all take a page out of your book, Jonathan, without confidence of not trying to be everyone to everybody, but what we do, we do it so well that you should be paying attention and really working with us and seeing what kind of difference that we can make. Now, Jonathan, you may not have this at your disposal.

I'm putting out the spot here. And the question for you would be in terms of that opportunity, costs of just no-shows and these appointments not happening. And I think I may have even heard that there's some kind of calculator that you might even have to help calculate this, you know, but kind of ballpark back of the envelope, a typical salesperson, as an example, you have any guidance for us of what that loss opportunity means in real dollars and cents from no shows?

[00:22:18] Jonathan Zacks: In terms of a typical salesperson, I don't have that off the top of my head. I do. I just spoke with someone who runs in an auto body shop, which is not nearly the same as a salesperson. We have some dealerships, those are salespeople. We have salespeople, a variety of kinds of using GoReminders, insurance, and other types of salespeople. But I need to get that stats, get those stats for salespeople, but I'll tell you for autobody. We did a calculation and a conservative calculation. It was like $1,800 a week that we're saving. And probably it was more like double that. And so that was just like not huge auto repair shop.

Just from cutting out, no shows or people coming at the wrong times, or too many people coming wanting to their car repaired at the same time, a variety of problems. We did the math. And so that was that. So I never would have even guests for that type of business. He was doing a case study for us and it was just like, the pricing is amazing.

This is what we're going to say. It was like more than a no-brainer. Yeah. And so I would say I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but if you just think about your conversion rates at each step of the flow, and if you have multiple appointments in your sales flow if you think about, if you can improve the show-up rate for any of those appointments, you can probably dramatically increase your overall like lead to customer conversion rate and increase that bottom line revenue. Another aspect that can really impact revenue and related to sales flow is if you're, especially if you're paying for leads.

 So perhaps you're running ads whatever it is, you're spending some money to get leads. If you can increase the rate that people show up for that first appointment or any appointment in that flow. Not only can it dramatically increase your revenue, but it can also decrease your cost of acquiring a customer allowing you to spend potentially more on ads to get more leads.

And that whole, all those conversion rates, and all those costs cost per getting someone on a call for the first cost per scheduling the next one up through cost of a customer can be dramatically decreased by attacking the no-show problem for all of your appointments.

[00:24:29] Jeffrey Feldberg: Love where you're going with that. And you know what I think for all of us is just so easy to overlook what a no-show really looks like. And Jonathan, you would know better than most. My suspicion is that coming out of the pandemic, number one, things are now more virtual, which means there's less friction points is a little bit easier to do.

But I also suspect because things are virtual because it's easier that the no-show rate is probably it's gone up. It's probably even higher than it was before, but that's just my own thesis. Where are we on that? Do you have any sense of what's going on with the no-shows and virtual appointments versus where we were before?

[00:25:03] Jonathan Zacks: I think it's all over the place. I think there's a lot more information that people have to process for appointments. Especially earlier in the pandemic, there was a lot of weight in your car, call us if you're going physically to an appointment, or if you're going to see a house showing or things like that, just so much more information than just like showing up at the right place at the right time.

And with zoom appointments. There are just several others, there's no traffic to get there, but there is a, oh, shoot. Zoom is updating or zoom is not opening or where's the link where I click the location and an open up a Google map with the zoom link in Google maps. There's all these potential points of confusion that, yes, I think people are extremely busy these days, it's like cars in traffic, like there's a slowdown. And then as cars get out of that slowdown, it's like zooming away. And that's what I feel like with everything, with appointments, and everything's over-scheduling right now. And overbooking travel and then being like, oh shoot, I can't take this much time off or I need to cancel this. So yeah, that's my general feeling is that there's a lot more going on in there.

[00:26:02] Jeffrey Feldberg: Outside of, GoReminders and reminding people any other things that we can be doing to really quell that and just have some lower, no shows coming up?

[00:26:11] Jonathan Zacks: I think just communicating, not communicating throughout the relationship with people to really make sure people see the value and then planning in your downtime because if you booked too many things and then you have to basically cancel on someone that sort of a reverse no-show and I used to, when I had a no-shows in my consulting business, I used to sort of just plan for eat lunch when I have a no show, like probably someone on those shows. Why am I letting my clients determine when I eat lunch? So things like really planning breaks in for yourself to make sure that you are prepared for meetings, make sure that that's another thing I was just like, if you want to prevent people from coming late show up on time. So if you are not showing up for people on time, they learn, I don't have to show up on time. And that easily slips into, I don't have to show up and I can reschedule it. I can cancel easily and things like that. So that's just like number one thing within your control is to make sure that you show up on time to appointments.

[00:27:08] Jeffrey Feldberg: You know what, it's common sense, but it's not so common sense, particularly when it comes to ourselves, we tend to take those boundaries often and not do that.

 And that ties nicely into one thought or one question here and that's this Jonathan. So when the listeners was walking away from this episode, you've talked a lot and we've done a deep dive on no shows and solutions to prevent that and what you're doing and how that can really make a difference.

But I'm wondering, so we're thinking of GoReminders. We're thinking of you, Jonathan, and we're having one takeaway from this episode, if we can do one thing and one thing only. That would go a long way to ensuring that people actually show up and they do what they say. They say what they do. Wouldn't that be a wonderful thing, but what would that one thing be if you had to recommend everything in your arsenal, if it would be this one magic tool that can make the difference in addition to GoReminders, what will come to mind?

[00:27:55] Jonathan Zacks: I think that one thing is value-based reminders. In your reminder, in addition all the details of where and when someone needs to show up, what need do they need to bring to really find a way to connect with the pain that you are solving, and in your in sales call or any type of meeting what is the value that this prospect or this customer is going to get out of this meeting that is going to address that pain that they are having?

Yeah, finding some way to communicate the value of an appointment to someone how they're going to feel during it, what you're going to cover. All of these are options of like, I'm going to go through this or at the end of the meeting, you'll have this information or by the end of the call, you'll be ready to do X, Y, Z.

Any of those things that you think connect to the feeling of, oh yeah, they're going to think like how like all about getting them to value. And how can they feel like they're definitely going to get value out of this meeting that will dramatically increase the chances that they will show up?

[00:28:55] Jeffrey Feldberg: I love that. And Jonathan, what you're talking about, it's something here at Deep Wealth, we call it the world's favorite radio station and the world's favorite radio station. It's WII.FM. Everyone listens to it. The what's in it for me radio station. And when you're talking about the value of what the person's going to get out of that appointment, it's really hey, Mr. Or Ms. Prospect. After we finished talking, here's why you're going to want to show up. Here's the value that you're going to get that you don't have today. That's going to help you not only for today, but for the many days ahead. And what a wonderful reminder that we can often just take for granted of not doing that.

So thank you so much for reminding us of that and for our listeners, WII.FM It's a key part of our nine step roadmap and the Deep Wealth Experience. But it's also a key part of just everyday life. We're always asking the question what's in it for the other person. What can I possibly say or do that would have the other person interested in doing them?

What I hope that they're going to do. And thank you for that, Jonathan for that too.

[00:29:52] Jonathan Zacks: Yeah, a hundred percent. I love that. I love it. It's absolutely. What's in it for me? If that lines up exactly with value-based reminders like that is what you should be trying to answer for different kinds of reminders.

I like to think of what questions am I trying to answer with the message I'm communicating. And that's, what you're trying to answer with that component of a reminder is like what's in it for me, like how can I communicate? What's in it for the person? That's what you need to put in their message.

[00:30:16] Jeffrey Feldberg: And speaking of thoughts and feelings and other persons, this is a perfect segue. As we begin to wrap up our episode and for that, Jonathan, we're going to do a quick thought experiment. And I'd like you to think of the movie Back to the Future. And in the movie, who doesn't love that? Right? In the movie you have that magical DeLorean car that can take you to any point in time.

So, Jonathan, I want you to imagine that it's tomorrow morning, you look outside your window. Wouldn't you know, it, there it is. The DeLorean car is not only there, but Jonathan, the door is open and it's waiting for you to hop on it. And so you hop on in and you can now go to any point in your life. Maybe it's Jonathan as a young child or a teenager.

Whatever the point would be. What are you telling your younger self in terms of life lessons or wisdom or, hey, Jonathan, do this, but don't do that. What would that sound like for you?

[00:31:09] Jonathan Zacks: Yeah, I think research less try more. Uh, so, you know, There's a lot about doing and not trying and those sorts of concepts, but I really think like the concept of trying is so powerful because doing makes me think, oh, I need to like, if I do something it's done.

But it's like, well, that's not really it's doing more in the sense of trying try this marketing tactic, try this platform, try this, different types of work, try selling this service. All these things like, one of those might turn into doing, because it actually works and it's done but yeah, I've, I spent a lot of time researching.

Should I try this platform? Should I try this marketing tactic? Should I pivot my business this way? Where really there are many tries in all of those things that could have cut through a lot of the research instead of trying to sort of research to figure out, which is the right path, which is the right thing to try.

So that's especially important with software platforms as well. I've spent so much time researching different software platforms to utilize for, a variety of different use cases. But the best ones that I've worked out have been ones that I've researched the least and just tried and then it's oh, this isn't working.

Great. Glad I tried it rather than 10 months of months more research on this.

[00:32:28] Jeffrey Feldberg: It's terrific advice, Jonathan.

It reminds me that done is always better than perfect. A hundred percent, chasing after perfection. As I like to say, let's leave perfection for the books and for the movies, because it doesn't exist in real life, and done is better than perfect.

[00:32:41] Jonathan Zacks: Definitely that is a great way of saying it.

[00:32:44] Jeffrey Feldberg: Well, Jonathan, you've given us so much wisdom and I'm going to put this in the show notes. If a listener would like to reach you online, what would be the best place?

[00:32:52] Jonathan Zacks: Sure. LinkedIn or Twitter or Instagram DMS any of those work for me. So yeah. Feel free to contact me at any point. Be happy to answer questions or if I can be of help in any way, please let me know.

[00:33:05] Jeffrey Feldberg: Terrific. Again, we'll put that in the show notes and for listeners out there, Jonathan is a very modest fellow. If you go to his website, He's very generous. There's a free trial, so you can actually put GoReminders to the test, see what it's like.

It won't cost you anything. See if it works for you and make a decision and see the benefits that you get from that. Jonathan, we're going to wrap up this episode. So officially it's a wrap. And as I say that, I want to share a heartfelt thank you for some of the time that you spent with your day with here with us here on the Deep Wealth Sell My Business Podcast and as always, please stay healthy and safe.

[00:33:37] Jonathan Zacks: Definitely. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it, Jeffrey.

[00:33:41] Sharon S.: The Deep Wealth Experience was definitely a game-changer for me.

[00:33:44] Lyn M.: This course is one of the best investments you will ever make because you will get an ROI of a hundred times that. Anybody who doesn't go through it will lose millions.

[00:33:54] Kam H.: If you don't have time for this program, you'll never have time for a successful liquidity

[00:33:59] Sharon S.: It was the best value of any business course I've ever taken. The money was very well spent.

[00:34:05] Lyn M.: Compared to when we first began, today I feel better prepared, but in some respects, may be less prepared, not because of the course, but because the course brought to light so many things that I thought we were on top of that we need to fix.

[00:34:21] Kam H.: I 100% believe there's never a great time for a business owner to allocate extra hours into his or her week or day. So it's an investment that will yield results today. I thought I will reap the benefit of this program in three to five years down the road. But as soon as I stepped forward into the program, my mind changed immediately.

[00:34:43] Sharon S.: There was so much value in the experience that the time I invested paid back so much for the energy that was expended.

[00:34:53] Lyn M.: The Deep Wealth Experience compared to other programs is the top. What we learned is very practical. Sometimes you learn stuff that it's great to learn, but you never use it. The stuff we learned from Deep Wealth Experience, I believe it's going to benefit us a boatload.

[00:35:07] Kam H.: I've done an executive MBA. I've worked for billion-dollar companies before. I've worked for smaller companies before I started my business. I've been running my business successfully now for getting close to a decade. We're on a growth trajectory. Reflecting back on the Deep Wealth, I knew less than 10% what I know now, maybe close to 1% even.

[00:35:25] Sharon S.: Hands down the best program in which I've ever participated. And we've done a lot of different things over the years. We've been in other mastermind groups, gone to many seminars, workshops, conferences, retreats, read books. This was so different. I haven't had an experience that's anything close to this in all the years that we've been at this.

It's five-star, A-plus.

[00:35:52] Kam H.: I would highly recommend it to any super busy business owner out there.

Deep Wealth is an accurate name for it. This program leads to deeper wealth and happier wealth, not just deeper wealth. I don't think there's a dollar value that could be associated with such an experience and knowledge that could be applied today and forever.

[00:36:10] Jeffrey Feldberg: Are you leaving millions on the table?

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