453 Dan Tocchini

Jeffrey Feldberg: [00:00:00] What if the limits you've placed in your life and business were just illusions waiting to be shattered? Today's guest has spent his career helping leaders strip away the stories that hold them back and build something extraordinary in their place. Dan Tocchini is not just a leadership coach. He's a transformational architect.

With over four of experience guiding entrepreneurs, executives, and entire organizations through profound change. Dan has mastered the art of challenging what we think is possible. As the co-founder of Take New Ground and host of the Naked Leadership Podcast, Dan has worked with global brands and high growth startups alike igniting cultures of ownership, radical honesty, and relentless growth.

But his story isn't one of overnight success. Dan's path is marked by deep personal reinvention. Early failures and moments of brutal self-reflection that reshaped his life and his work.

His wisdom is forged not just from boardrooms, [00:01:00] but from the trenches of life's most defining struggles.

If you've ever felt the tension between who you are and who you're meant to be, this is the voice you want in your ear. Dan Tocchini doesn't just teach transformation. He lives it, breathes it and helps others build it from the inside out.

And before we start the episode, a quick word from our sponsor, Deep Wealth and the Deep Wealth Mastery Program. Here's Bill, a graduate, who says, the Deep Wealth Mastery Program has transformed the KPIs we're using to accelerate growth and profits.

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Deep Wealth Nation welcome to another episode of the Deep Health Podcast. Let me ask you a question, actually, let me share a statement with you at Deep Wealth. We have this saying, show us your team and we'll tell you your future and when it comes to your team. How is your team? Are you having those tough to have but honest conversations?

Or are you having that political correctness not doing what you should be doing, and perhaps even like that thief in the night, having your profits, your success, your growth, just being robbed right before your eyes? You don't even realize that, and if you're nodding, if you say yes. Don't worry, you're not alone.

Most entrepreneurs are nodding. Well, we have a very special guest in the House of Deep Wealth. So Dan, welcome to Deep Wealth Podcast. An absolute pleasure to have you with us. I always love being with a fellow entrepreneur, podcast host, thought leader, just a real game changer, and there's always a story behind the story.

So, Dan, what's your story? What got you from where you were to where you are [00:05:00] today?

Dan Tocchini: Well, Jeffrey, thanks for having me. I'm honored and I've been looking forward to this. I've listened to a few of your podcasts what got me where I'm at today. I have to say my failures, I've had some pretty significant failures at a young age. My, I grew up in an entrepreneurial family.

My grandfather wanted to know why I was going to college because he opened the first talking motion picture theater north of San Francisco. He was involved with grocery stores and real estate and, my father and he, we were talking business, we were kids I got out of the box.

I started running movie theaters and kind of what he taught me to do and my tough start. My mother was a schizophrenic and so we had the tough family life, right? When I turned 18, family split. I broke my foot playing boy at a scholarship, played football. Got deeply, I got involved in drugs at an early age, so just faltering all along the way.

And at one point when I met my wife, I remember she said to me, [00:06:00] look, if you want me, you're gonna have to get your shit together. And so, and it made a difference 'cause it, that's exactly what I did. But what happened was, the things I've read a lot since I was a kid. And mainly to reach my mother, but also what I started realizing is what I learned to reach her.

Taught me how to negotiate and taught me how to listen in a way that I could work with a team and organize the team and get, just talk. Turkey was a team in a way that would either call them up or have them get that this wasn't the place for them to be in. that basically came from negotiating my relationship with my wife, believe it or not.

Her first talking to me that way, me negotiating my way back into the relationship, understanding what was wanted and needed. I did a lot of soul searching and I realized that. In order to lead people and to run a business, I have to first master myself. And that's what I spent a lot of my early years doing.

Mastering [00:07:00] myself, getting acquainted with the things that I was afraid if people saw they wouldn't wanna be around me, you know, those kinds of things. And then being able to make friends with them so they became allies rather than enemies. And so, I can be very, domineering, for instance, as my wife has told me and my partners, and knowing that is not a bad thing.

In fact, I would rather have it than it has me. And there are times when domineering works, but there are also times when it doesn't, and any strength overplayed becomes a weakness. And so I kind of went through my life. To get here, managing myself in a way that would open up possibility and being able to communicate in very tough situations what I felt was wanted and needed.

And it would draw to the surface what was wanted and needed to bring together the minds at the table. And I can get more specific about that.

Jeffrey Feldberg: My goodness. Dan, firstly, thank you so much for being open, for being [00:08:00] vulnerable with us. As I've often said on the podcast, being vulnerable, most people think you're being weak. When you're being vulnerable. It's actually the opposite. It takes a very strong person who's comfortable in his or her shoes.

To be vulnerable and open. And as you're sharing this with the really the instrumental role that your now wife has played, you're actually taking me back, one of my favorite business books, Napoleon Hill, think And Grow Rich, and I'll never forget where he shares. I'm not gonna say it as eloquently as Hill said, but he effectively said the most important decision in your life, both personal and business.

It's the partner that you choose that's gonna be the biggest determination. Are you gonna be a success or not a success? And in your case, clearly your wife has been absolutely instrumental in putting you in the right direction.

I've gotta ask you this, easier said than done, because I know for most people, myself included, when I hear negative feedback. First instinct is to just shut that down. They're not right. That's not So, I know who I am and I'm all [00:09:00] good, and we come up with this Kool-Aid, our own Kool-Aid that we're drinking and it's not Right.

Dan Tocchini: I know it well, 

Jeffrey Feldberg: So how did you get through that? How did you cut through that to say, okay, you know what? Yeah, she's right. Let me do something about that.

Dan Tocchini: well, again, I'm gonna refer to my wife Eileen, who is a business partner. She's the VP in charge of our coaching department and basic coaching and consulting she said to me one time, you know, Dan, when you get afraid, it seems like you get arrogant instead of ask for what you want.

And I, I got defensive and she said, okay, look, if it was true, would you wanna know? And when she asked me that, I was like. of course I'd wanna know. And she goes, well then maybe you might to get curious before you start defending. And that really, it is a it's kind of a joke around the house now.

All my kids use it. It is hey. This is what I'm experiencing with you and to each other. We'll say, if it was true, would you wanna know? And that's really kind of the attitude I took with myself. When somebody gives me feedback, I ask a couple of [00:10:00] questions. If it was true, would I wanna know? And if it is true, where is it true and when is it true, and what is the impact of it when I'm there?

Because I have found that most of my challenges in business I've contributed to them by the way that I've engaged the people I'm working with or a client. Or a potential client or an employee, et cetera. I'm not saying take the blame for anything. I'm just saying what am I adding to this that's actually not working and what's wanted and needed from me to actually have it work?

And that might come down to firing somebody and not waiting. It could be that simple, but I've got, there's a series, there's an inquiry. I use a very simple stack of questions that cause me to think about things and outside of my, sound chamber the echo chamber of my preferences be.

Jeffrey Feldberg: As you're talking about that, I wanna go back to something that you said right outta the gates, and I don't [00:11:00] often hear this, and in fact, with most entrepreneurs, if I were to ask them the question, what do you need to be successful? I'm gonna hear things like the right strategy, the right go to market. I need to have the right capital or the best team, all those other things.

You didn't say any of that. The first thing that you said right outta the gates was, well, Jeffrey, I had to work on myself first. I had to bring out the best version of me. And once I did that, I then brought that to business. I brought that to the table. And for so many entrepreneurs, that's not even on the radar.

I. It's an afterthought, if at all. So when did you realize that? And can you share with Deep Wealth Nation the power of what that's done? Not just for you, but also with your community. Take new ground with your clients, what you're doing, and how this made a difference for them.

Dan Tocchini: Well, do a pretty deep dive leadership training. we do two events for the general public, and our clients usually enroll their teams or themselves in them. One of 'em is called the Revenant Process. It's a four day leadership intensive, and I mean intensive. it [00:12:00] basically is all about managing your impact on other people.

I don't have to. Manipulate any of the people, bring their relationships into the four days, and then they get a chance to notice where they don't often get feedback, what kind of impact their comments, their way of being, how they're engaging people are having on one another. and then the second thing we have is called the Intrepid, and it's the academy for Effective Leadership.

It's a 60 day program, three separate. Weekends where we put people in front of a camera, work with them coaching their team or somebody they're working with and then so they get coached while they coach somebody. They get up in front of camera, et cetera, and we work with their leadership presence, the way they bring themselves to the party.

I had a company I ran for 20 years. I started it from scratch. It did very well, and I built a team that was with me for most of them, 14, 15 years. And in the end, I blew it up [00:13:00] because I wasn't honest. To be, I was done with the business. I, I could have sold it to them.

I ended up breaking it up and giving them the content it was a consulting firm, training, consulting, et cetera. And what happened was I was gonna turn it over to somebody to run it. They was going a succession plan, but I really didn't wanna stay on, and he asked me to stay on and work with him, and I did it and I knew I didn't want to.

And after a year. The thing was flailing and I went in to talk to him about it and he pushed back on what I was saying to him. And instead of saying something, instead of standing up and saying, Hey, look, I'm telling you this 'cause I see some things. Let me show you what I see. I backed off and in my mind I thought, okay, pal, you know what?

Here I've helped you get here. I built this thing. Go ahead, see how you do. And I watched it fail. and basically all I said was I told you. I think it was one of the worst moments of my life because A, I love the guy I turned it [00:14:00] over to. B I love the business and I love the people that work there.

And, well, I asked myself, well, what was most important to you? And I think looking good, being right. I. Those are the two things that were more important to me at that moment. And it cost me, it cost me in relationship. It cost me financially, it cost me in time and stress. And from that moment, that was about 20 years ago, I realized, we built this thing on being candid.

We built this thing. I'm being honest, I bailed in the 18th, 19th year. I, I went to a, I think it was a bit of entitlement. Where I thought I did all this, I should not have to put up with this and I've heard that from a a lot of entrepreneurs. I remember saying to myself, I'm not here to babysit these people.

And that's one of the great complaints entrepreneurs like to level. I'm not here to babysit these people. That's a red flag. The minute I find myself saying that, I know that I'm not being honest with myself, there's probably a conversation. [00:15:00] Somewhere with my team or in the organization where I need to get real about what's up for me and put at stake what needs to go at stake to have the thing work and to look for what it's gonna take to do that.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so Dana, as you're talking about that, I mean, wow, what a rich conversation that is and to have, because for most of us, forget business, I'm just talking in general, to have those very honest conversations. That's a tough thing to do. It's, I don't feel comfortable speaking to the person that way, or how are they gonna react or I'm gonna be the bearer of bad news.

Are they gonna shoot the messenger here? And I know very recently you're walking the talk because your podcast, the Naked Leadership Podcast, you made the decision as we're recording this just very recently to put that on pause. I'm sure that wasn't an easy

Dan Tocchini: Yeah. No, it wasn't.

Jeffrey Feldberg: You're absolutely doing these things.

How do you stay out of that comfort zone? Because once we're there, it's just human nature. It feels so good. I can go on autopilot. I don't have to do anything, but it's not the right place for most of us. So how do you stay outta that comfort zone to make [00:16:00] sure that you're still growing, that you're still achieving new heights and being where you should be?

Dan Tocchini: I honestly believe that, is a catalyst, right? I mean, you have conflict because you have diversity. You have different ideas, different opinions, different thoughts people are weighing in and having those conversations is like discovering who's really on board with

And discovering if you are on board or what's wanted and needed for you to get on board. It's not just so if I have an idea and I lay it out with a team and two people, multiple people have different ideas about it or contest it and push back, there's a time for that. and that's in the beginning.

You know, The worst thing in the world is to get down the path and have somebody turn on you. And that's happened. I've had that happen in projects. And I have to look back and go, where was I unwilling to have the conversation with this person, this gal or this guy? What indication, what did I shy away from that if I would've.

You never know. It can show up like somebody's late to a [00:17:00] meeting or they've got some smart ass remark about something that's going on and you hear it and you go I wonder what that's about. But you don't wanna talk about it 'cause you're afraid it'll disturb. The momentum you have going on now, how you address that?

you gotta look at the context. Obviously, if it's in a team meeting, maybe you take it off offline, maybe you take it in the team meeting. If it's good for the team, it just depends on the context, but it's got to be had, and there's a specific way to do it. I have a framework if you, that I use when I have a difficult conversation, and the first thing I do is I think to myself, why do I wanna have this conversation when I have it?

What do I want to have come out of it? I gotta get really clear about that. There's it's a difficult conversation because. I'm afraid that I could lose something. So the first thing I've gotta do is weigh the cost and what I do is I say, okay, now if I don't have this conversation, what future's coming?

Most people don't ask [00:18:00] that question. I work with a lot of execs. We do a lot of coaching, consulting, et cetera, and to ask people to think about, well, if you don't have that conversation, what's coming down the road? It's this shit hor d'oeuvre principle. My grandfather gave me this.

If most shit happens as an hor d'oeuvre first, and you go, I don't want the hor d'oeuvre. I don't wanna have this conversation. It could interrupt the flow or my comfort or what I wanna do after work or whatever. Then you push it away and it comes back as a sandwich and you go, I don't want that thing.

And so you push that away and it comes back as a two course meal. And if you push that away, it's coming back as a, a buffet. And the idea is to catch the buffet as an hors d'oeuvre. And so. My job as a leader is to set context, is to create narrative that the work is conducive for people, both personally and collectively, to get the work done to get the [00:19:00] mission done.

That in a way that's both good for the company and rewarding for the individual. I'm, I'd say all that because knowing why you wanna have the conversation is a huge start. Secondly, I. And I write all this down. I don't know how your audience does, but I prepare for conversations because I have scars all over me for not preparing.

so that's the first preparation. Why do I wanna have this conversation? What's the outcome I want? And if I don't have it, what's the future that's coming? I start there. Then I say, okay, good. What's the breakdown? And I have to, nine tenths of a hard conversation is naming the breakdown.

So I'll write down the breakdown and then I'll go through these other steps. And sometimes when I get down to step two, three, or four, I might go, you know what, the breakdown's different than what I articulated. And I go back up and re-articulate and get it clearer. after I do all of this, I'll use chat [00:20:00] GPT to look at it as well.

Now that we have that.

So what's the breakdown? And then after I name it, I wanna provide an example of something that happened that illuminates the breakdown, like so that they can put their hands on what I'm talking about. So I might say to, gee, Jeffrey I noticed the way that you handled so and so the other day.

I thought you were right about what you were talking about, but I noticed. That the way you delivered it, really, you didn't stop to notice how they took it. And I think they didn't understand what you said. How I know that is they came late the next day and you were just talking to them about that. So something's missing in there.

And I have an idea what I think it is, but I want to talk to you. So I give 'em an example and then I, say, look, when it occurs, this is what happens for me. I noticed that, for instance, in this example, I might just simple little one, I feel like getting my hands in there and I started feeling like I wanna micromanage, which isn't gonna [00:21:00] work.

I know that, but I feel like I must do something like that. And I get edgy and I notice I don't trust you as much. So I can tell you what goes on for me when I see this. and I'm writing all this down. I'm not saying this to him yet. I'm writing it down so that I have something I can take with me.

So when we talk, if you go off on a tangent, I can go with you and I know what to come back to.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Sure.

Dan Tocchini: I talk about how I've contributed to it. That's the next step. here's how I see I've contributed to this. I could have talked about it earlier. Any list of things that I could have done or didn't do or did do that actually help this issue along rather than resolve it.

the next one is what the one I started with, which is, if this continues, I'm concerned because this is what I think is at stake. And then I create what I call the parade of horribles. I want them to know what I see coming. if you and I don't make this shift, we don't get a shift here.

Here's what I see is [00:22:00] coming, and then after I got that written down and I play that out as extensively as I can because I know that people are five times more motivated to stop something from hurting them than they are from doing something. They'll get joy from. just know that people are five times more motivated to act on preventing something that could hurt them than acting on something that could help them.

So I want them to get that. What could hurt us? You, me, if we stay in this mode, here's what I see coming. Do you see anything else? I wanna build that up because that will, that brings the at stake ness in the conversation up. And then I'll write out a proposal. At the end of it here's what I propose we do about this and it's a clear request for action with a time, like, how many by when?

And then they can counter that. But they can uh, during the conversation, they can go anywhere they want. 'cause I've prepared myself and then I'll probably learn things in the [00:23:00] conversation that may change my perspective, but at least I know where I started and I can add that to it. And that helps me navigate and not lose my bearings.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So Dan, what I'm hearing, and again, you're just being so open, you're putting everything on the table for us. Thank you for doing that. So for you, how your mind operates, you're writing everything down, I love that preparation. As we say in Deep Mastery, our 90 day flagship program preparation is the gift.

Keeps on giving, so you're clarifying your thoughts. You have that down in writing. It's there for you to refer to, and you can correct me if I'm off based on this part of your approach. It actually reminds me of the Charles Dickens a Christmas Carol. Well, here's the past. Here's where we are today, and if nothing changes, this is what the future.

Could be like, or if we do change it, this is actually what it will be like. And you're invoking that sense of pain and you're absolutely right. We will do more to avoid pain than to get pleasure. That's how our mind is really operating

Dan Tocchini: is wired.

Jeffrey Feldberg: that's how it's wired. And so you're doing all that. I love it because you're creating [00:24:00] leverage within.

I gotta ask you this. So speaking to a team member on perhaps some behavior or lack of behavior, I get that I know what I found to be incredibly difficult, and I'm not alone in this. When we have our mastermind meetings, I hear it time and time again from different entrepreneurs. For myself as an example, having to let go, terminate or fire a team member for me, you know, and I've led teams of hundreds of people not to brag or to put that out there.

It never got any easier for me. So in that kind of situation, I. How would you apply your framework, your strategies, when you have to have a difficult situation effectively, you're saying goodbye, you know your. Changing potentially someone's, well, their lifestyle, they're depending on you, their family, all those kinds of things.

The team, everything else. There's always a flip side. The team probably wants 'em to go away because they're not performing. They know it's probably hurting my leadership because they've been staying on for so long and all of that. But I tell you in the moment, I sure don't feel that way. So for those really difficult conversations, [00:25:00] that's your specialty.

How do we do or prepare for something like that?

Dan Tocchini: I let him know exactly what's not working for me and I own it and I don't know, I could be wrong, I've gotta act on my conscience and. I don't a, I can it's not working for me, and I probably don't believe it's working for them, and I can name that now, they may not believe that, but I still give them the benefit that I don't think it's working for you either

Based on results.

it's like before I get to that conversation, I've usually intervened with this person. we've had conversations, it isn't like a surprise. If it is a surprise, then I've been lazy And I've been a coward. And by the way, the parade of horribles is what builds courage.

I can say this, I'm courageous because I'm more afraid of what's coming than what I have to do. So it's not really, and it's that kind of courage where, you know what I'd rather pay now than later with penalties and interest. It's that kind of, I've gotta build that [00:26:00] up other, otherwise it's just, I don't have the courage to say the things I need to say.

And so if you do that homework and you sit down and you've got that at your hand and you're letting somebody go, well, it's hard. I don't think there's anything easy about it, but it's necessary. It's good for the business, it's good for the person. Usually I can see and. There's times when I've said to people, look, I'd love to develop you.

I just don't have the resources. You've gotta go somewhere. Because there's only two breakdowns. There's either a competency breakdown or an attitudinal breakdown and both of them, so if somebody's not competent, that's probably easier to correct than somebody's attitude. But, I just had a conversation.

I'm in the midst of a, conversation with a hotel staff, and they just don't want to hear feedback. From their clients, they wanna make the client wrong. I told 'em, look, it doesn't matter if you go in and you're constantly defending yourself. How can you be of [00:27:00] service? What could we learn? Even if they're wrong?

What could we learn from it? Like just getting that conversation in is really difficult. That's no different when you let somebody go 'cause you're basically giving them feedback. And I think about it, it's look, I want to give you something that you can take with you. So when you go to the next job, you are either more honest about what you're willing to do and what you're up to, that you are willing to listen and take feedback when it comes up along the way.

Because if you're here in front of my desk and I'm firing you, you've probably had a trail of feedback you haven't listened to. Right now. So there's a lot of variables in there. A lot of entrepreneurs tend to give double signals like, Hey, you're doing great. And then you go complain about 'em later, and then you wanna let 'em go and they're surprised and you wonder why you're, sitting in front of the EEOD or you're in some kind of hearing because it was a wrongful dismissal, or dotting your i's, crossing your T's is not just for you, but it's for them because you're preparing them to either get up [00:28:00] or go to somewhere where they can get up

And that's how I view it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah, so it's really you're thinking about yourself on the one hand, okay, here's what's in it for me. If I just do the same, here's where it's going. If absolutely nothing, here's where it's likely gonna be. And I like your parade of terribles and what can come from that. But you're also creating hope for a better day.

Well, yeah, it's gonna be uncomfortable, but if I can address this today. Tomorrow and the day after that, and the day after that. Well, wow, it can be so much better. And here's what's in store for me when I do that. So you're acknowledging. okay, this may not feel comfortable. It may not be easy.

It really is the best thing. I'm gonna do it and here's why I'm gonna do it. And here's what's gonna happen. If I don't do it. I keep on putting it off. Here's what's in store for me.

Dan Tocchini: Yeah. I'm glad you're emphasizing that because that is the key to growing courage. it's a paradox, so.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Would it be fair to say, and there's always exceptions, but Dan, would it be fair to say that growing courage, it's a muscle. We're not necessarily born with it. It [00:29:00] takes practice, it takes time. We're probably gonna make mistakes along the way, but the more we take on those difficult conversations, the more practice we have, the better we get at it.

Doesn't mean that we're not gonna still feel those feelings, those down feelings, but we know what to expect and we know why we're doing it, and we're just more of a pro when we're doing that.

Dan Tocchini: catch yourself the minute that you think you shouldn't be having. Like when I say to myself, well, I shouldn't be having it. Why do I have to have this conversation? That just means I'm tired or I'm, I just don't get what I'm up to. I need to stop. Because going faster isn't gonna help.

I need to slow down so I can go faster. I need to slow down. And really, when I'm laying in bed, sitting alone, driving my car, think about what is it. This conversation keeps coming up. I don't wanna have it, but it keeps coming to me. So it must, it wants to be had now. What's the best way to have it?

Or it's going to have me later. I'm either gonna have it or it's gonna have me. That's what goes on in my head. [00:30:00] And with the breakdowns that I shared earlier, I could go into details and I've written books on it. I've written about them. when you go through something like that and you really experience it, you won't wanna go on to another deal unless you've take owned really what you contributed to the breakdown.

And if you've contributed to the breakdown and if you really owned it, you won't forget it the next time you go into, the next situation. It will inform you quickly as to when you're going down the path that you say to get something you say you really don't want.

That's usually, avoiding, look what you are unwilling to face now will eventually defeat you. That's basically the principle

because it's not going away. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: So what you're putting off today, what you're not willing to face right now, eventually may not be tomorrow, may not be the next day, but eventually it will defeat you.

Dan Tocchini: Yeah.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And I imagine as the saying goes, it is death by a thousand cuts. You know, In [00:31:00] our mind that's often worse than what actually happens because we're fretting it.

I don't wanna do it. I'm thinking

Dan Tocchini: We make it bigger than it is If you get really good at having these conversations, a half hour is all you need, and maybe an hour. If it's really intricate and you've taken your time, but you know when they take a long time or it takes days, it's because you've put it off for months or years and it's grown into this monster.

That you have to take apart big piece by piece and usually you, that's where you lose people, you lose assets. That's what happened to me in that 20 year business where I ended up dividing it up and selling it is if I would've, I realized I was talking to my wife. We were debriefing it after we had gone through it and we spent months talking about, really, where'd we miss this and.

Really three and a half years before that, we were raising money and it didn't come in the way we wanted, and the gentleman who wanted to do the succession plan said, let's do plan B, and we didn't have a plan B. And I remember my wife saying to [00:32:00] me, we don't have a plan B. What's he talking about? And I remember thinking, well, I like this guy a lot.

I've worked with him for years. I'm gonna go with him and see what he's got as plan B. And my wife said, you're making a mistake. You ought stop everything. And he ought to have to present plan B to us, to the board. And so that you get a lot of eyes on it. I didn't do that. And that cost me.

I just wanted to get it outta my, when I got honest about it, I wanted to get it off my lap. I wanted out, I was done in that business and so I didn't finish well, and it cost me two or three years and hundreds of thousands of dollars. I.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so let me ask you, as you've been so open with us, that recent decision where you, the team, you sat down and you said, okay, you know what? We're gonna stop the podcast. We're gonna put it on pause for now. And you made that public declaration without going into the specific details. We'll keep that private.

I. More the awareness of it. How did you know that it was time? What were some of the telltale signs? You know what, [00:33:00] it's had a great run. Maybe we will pick it up down the road later, but for now we're gonna put a pause in it. What led to that? I.

Dan Tocchini: We had a great run, no doubt, and 200 episodes we had a lot of listeners, but in the top 3% at the time. We changed our business model and we decided to refocus what we're doing from a general consulting firm to basically we go in to solve problems and we don't do a lot of. you will, a la carte work.

We come in with a team, solve a problem with them, come up with a plan with them, put three of us, two or three of us on the ground with them at least 15 days a month and solve the problem. And we charge a higher fee, but we produce really big results. And when we did that, we realized that the amount of time it would take us.

To both penetrate the market we were aiming at. Our particular avatar and to develop what we wanted to develop, [00:34:00] it would take more financial resource than what we were willing, than it would split the resources so much that we would dissipate ourselves. We felt like we wouldn't be effective. We, because we'd be doing the podcast and the podcast is directed as a different audience, and there's all kinds of things that we took into consideration and.

was a mutual decision. Both Chad, myself, and Adrian decided together after a couple of good discussions, penetrating discussions about what we're doing, what it's costing us, what the return on it is, the new market, what we think it's gonna take to get there. And eventually all three of us looked up and went, you know what this isn't gonna work. We need to focus our energy and it's a good thing we did because it took us about six months to break into that new market that we were focusing on. And it's been. Phenomenal success since then. We've talked a couple times about doing the podcast again, but it [00:35:00] hasn't, we do it because we enjoyed it.

That's what we've all come up with, and right now we're also focused on what we're doing, and we're actually deeply in multiple clients that we just, it's not something we have the bandwidth to do. So, but I mean, we decided that then, but when we did it, there was a big gap. And a couple of times we both went, God, should we have done this? But it would paid off in the long run. It paid off over like it took us about four months to make the shift.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So from our conversation up to this point, really what I'm hearing you say is it was a difficult decision. You were aware enough and you're aware of both your personality and also what was going on in the business to say, okay, sure. The easy thing, let's just keep on doing this. We got in the schedule, we know how to do it.

But that's not the right thing, and there's gonna be some pain, some discomfort. There's gonna be a change in our schedule, how we're doing things, probably some gaps while we figure things out and we switch to this new business model. This new avatar. Had you not done that though, to your point, you would've been spinning a lot of time, a lot of [00:36:00] cycles, a lot of effort and energy.

All for Naugh.

Dan Tocchini: Yeah our bottom line grew 80% over the last year

from the shift. So it's massive. We're both, we're all happy with it, but I can tell you, we still talk about the podcast 'cause we love to get together and just shoot it like this as a blast minute. So.

Jeffrey Feldberg: so when you look at that, because your specialty is working at a very high level, to take successful entrepreneurs and companies, leadership teams to really take it to the next level, to find those gaps, those blind spots that are there, they just. They're in plain slate, but they're not seeing it to take it to the next level.

A bit of an unfair question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways. And you'd be perfectly right to say, well, Jeffrey, every individual, every company, they're on their own trajectory. They're unique, is different. And I agree. That said, are there certain patterns? Is it the AL'S law, the 80 20 principle? Yeah. Jeffrey, you know what?

20% of these patterns I see all the time and they're creating 80% of the challenges.

What are you seeing out there?

Dan Tocchini: we've talked about a few of [00:37:00] them. the unwillingness to have the difficult conversations stifles teams, because members see that difficult conversations need to be had. And if you don't have them, then they begin to get that, okay, it's okay to let things linger.

So it affects the culture. Most people don't think about the secondary and tertiary impact of not having those conversations 'cause people are watching. Or if you have some, somebody who's a high producer, but they're a pain in the ass they're basically a primadonna you're not willing to sit down and develop them because you're afraid you'll lose their production.

Then your team begins to know that you're basically selling out. You're not willing to stand up, to the values of the organization and risk losing them to get them right for the rest of the team. those are two keys. Giving an account is another one, owning your part of whatever didn't work out.

Like we don't look at. When we break down a breakdown, we break it down to learn from it. [00:38:00] So we're looking at what worked and we illuminate that as clear as we can because we want more of that. And then we look at what didn't work. That illuminates what's missing, which helps us understand what's wanted and needed.

And if we can get really clear about what's wanted and needed, we can make very clear requests and promises that'll forward the project, whatever we're on, getting people to get into that mindset. It sounds simple and it is. What's difficult is people don't trust the inquiry. When you say what's not working, what they hear is what's wrong with me.

And to be able to help people make the distinction between what's happening and what they're making up about what happens to me it's a major distinction with in leadership because if I can get my team to differentiate between the action and the result. Distinct from what they're making up about it, then they can actually manage themselves much better.

If you think you are the result [00:39:00] you won't want. It's like being a partisan, right? So I'm watching the political thing now and, I really like RFK Junior and. He's got some problems. He's got some serious issues going on. I follow him closely. I have a friend who just loves him and she's like, well, you know, what do you think?

I said, I think he's got some issues and he's gonna need to come clean. And she's like, you should give him the benefit of the doubt. I said, I wouldn't give him any more of the benefit of the doubt than I would Biden or anybody else in there, because when you got that kind of power, It deteriorates You can deteriorate your integrity. And he's already got issues outside of it. And I was telling her, as much as I love the guy, I wanna see the truth. I don't wanna be blinded to it. it's like in an organization, you get your favorite person, you got your great team members, you got people you can count on.

You don't do them a service if you don't continue to check in on 'em. Trust is something mature. Trust is knowing that [00:40:00] anybody can betray themselves and you at any moment, and you include it, I could betray. So the more I am mature about it, I'm expecting that to come. I'm watching for the signs and then I'm open handedly investigating and allowing the same to be done with me.

So there's a transparency, there's an exchange, and the plumb line is the mission. What are we getting done here and how is what we're up to getting it done or not? 

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so with that example and thank you for sharing. So with your friend who's saying you should be giving the benefit of the doubt, if we take that now into the business context and you're speaking with a team member, perhaps even a client. Maybe a prospective client and you're bringing the cold hard truth to them.

That's who you are. That's what you do. They just don't want to hear it. How do you have someone to at least be open to hearing what's there, even though it might be uncomfortable?

Dan Tocchini: Well, I asked him, like I said, if it was true, would you wanna know?

I'm not saying what [00:41:00] everything I see is true, but. I can't believe it and nothing I see is true and I wonder what part of what I'm saying could be true. I'll consider it with you. You can say to me, well, I don't think that's true. I said, I'll consider it.

Tell me how you see. It's not true. Like I wanna hear it so we can have a discussion about it. If the person can't emotionally contain it, that's your first indicator that there's an issue. There's something that's maybe they're not even aware of. But if you can't look at the breakdown and.

Dissect it and begin to look at it in an as objective fashion as you can. Separating your like, it doesn't mean that you don't have judgements about it. It doesn't mean that you're not afraid of it or that there's, you can talk about those things, but you don't let them govern the conversation. What governs the conversation should be, what we're doing together and what we're trying to accomplish together, and what that does that mean to you and me at this point.

And then working from there. [00:42:00] wish it was a formula, but that, that takes finesse, that takes experience that, you know, you gotta listen twice as much as you talk.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And again, it sounds like you're going back to that Christmas Carol, okay, here's what's been going on in the past. Here's where we are today, here's where the future could go. Let's talk about this. it's so funny you brought that up. Are you familiar with Aristotle?

Of course, yeah. Yeah.

Dan Tocchini: Yeah, there's two types of knowledge he identified. One of 'em is called practical knowledge, which is the knowledge about the essence of things, the value of relationship, the value of, a family or an individual.

And then there's theoretical knowledge, which is how to get something done, what you wanna get done. And that's a big tension in business, right? We wanna get something done But people don't wanna get something done if if they don't get an intrinsic value out of it, they don't see how it serves them in their life.

And Scrooge , the Christmas Carol by Dickens is the best. It [00:43:00] kind of display of that. 'cause here's Scrooge, who's fully theoretical. He knows how to make money, he knows the theories behind it, and everybody gets turned into a tool and then he gets disintermediated by what's coming down in the future.

And he begins to get in touch with practical knowledge, which is the intrinsic value of Tim and the, all the different people he's touched in his life and he comes to the party and now the fullness of it's like fulfillment. Not only does he have results, but he also has the intrinsic value of the people around him.

And I, I see that as crucial in business, that knowing and balancing those two, and it's not easy to do it. You really have a conscious team, people who are checking each other on these issues.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. My goodness, there is that a whole series, not just an episode. There's a whole series on how we deal with that, what that looks like. But let me ask you this. I mean, there's so many different areas that we can go into and that said, we're gonna start to bump up again some time, [00:44:00] but I'm wondering. On the business side, incredibly successful with what you're doing and deep both Nation.

When you go to the show notes, click on them, go to Dan's company. Some of the logos that you're gonna see up there, world class logos. How are you balancing Dan between business success? And then on the personal side, family success. Because I know for so many entrepreneurs. Oftentimes, sadly, one will usually take over.

Oftentimes it's the business at the expense of the family and personal. So what are you doing there to have some wins across the board?

Dan Tocchini: We're very conscious. Our team is of integrating our lives with no silos. That's our internal mantra, no silos. So my wife knows my partner's wives. She knows the ki. We know each other's kids. We know what our social status is. If somebody gets up against it, we support them. My, my grandson died about three years ago, two and a half years ago.

Uh, A tragic accident, two and a half year old boy, it was amazing how the team covered and [00:45:00] were involved in every aspect of my personal life as much as the business life, and I was able to take two months. Completely alone with my family and work through the mourning and grieving process with them and stay in the same place and didn't miss a step at work because the team covered it and there was no, issue.

But we are so. And we know each other. we're not just, I go to work and there's a guy and I don't know who his family is and I don't know what he's up to and what his kids are up to and who his kids are and all his vision for his children and how this is playing into his legacy, et cetera.

We're very deeply involved that way and we work to stay that way. And personally, if I like, so for instance, if I gotta go do something, I can go to my family and say, I need time to go do this. Because like, I'm getting ready to launch a new project and I know I've got the connection with them enough that if I said I need two months to go do this and I'm gonna be, focused and in concentration we call it, will that work for [00:46:00] you?

And how can we get, work this out and we'll work it out and we'll talk along the way and they'll give me the time and vice versa. The business will gimme time for my family. No, that comes because we're integrated. There's no work life balance. It's not like they're juxtaposed to each other. They're actually interdependent and we wanna know about that with each of our team members.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so it sounds like you've built that into the culture. The whole team knows about this. It's open. It's not a secret when time is needed. Hey guys, I need some time. On the personal side, this has gone on or this is happening, and it could be a celebration, it could be a loss, whatever it's gonna be. But you're upfront, you're out there.

It's understood because you're asking this time, it's gonna be another team member who's asking another time, but it's baked into the culture. This is who we are, this is what we do.

Dan Tocchini: If there's any concerns, people bring 'em up and we work with them. You know, things aren't always smooth. I don't mean to give that impression there. We butt heads, but nothing goes unsaid and [00:47:00] it usually gets said pretty well because I. We've worked enough together that we don't take it personal.

We, we know it's not a personal statement. If something's not working, something needs to be learned here so we can get it back on track.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so what I'm also hearing there's an openness in the culture. Hey, if you have something on your mind, say it. If this is not.

If it's not hitting you the right way, I want to hear about it. Tell me why. Let's have a conversation

Dan Tocchini: Oh yeah. And we do, yeah. And you know, if you gotta say it, and a lot of times I mean, I've, Adrian has said to me, and I've said to him, and David and Mark, we've said it multiple times to each other. Look, stop trying to find a way to say it. Just say it. I can take it. tell me the way it is unedited.

We'll start there. And, Adrian said something to me once, he said, I like to start there because. That tells me where you really are. So if I just say it how it is for me and you can hear it, I know you're wi with me If you get defensive, I know I've gotta slow down and wait for you to catch up and clarify some things and I go appreciate it.

'cause my tendency is to go defensive [00:48:00] first when I get hooked and my wife says, I know you're listening, so I'm gonna give you a few minutes to catch up with me.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Well, I like how that's really baked in and it's just part of who you are, how everyone is showing up and de both nation. What a terrific strategy. How is your culture? Can you have that kind of radical honesty, that kind of openness where time off for personal kinds of things. It's not only out there, it's welcome, it's encouraged because I would imagine, Dan, once you have that and you've taken that personal time for whatever that is, you're coming back.

Sure on the personal side, if it's a loss, and again, condolences for the passing of your grandson, I mean, that's never easy, but you're coming back knowing, okay, I got a team that supports me and I was able to take some time to focus on what's there. That the healing process I would imagine can become a little bit quicker, perhaps somewhat easier, if I can use that word, than having to try and suck it in and just show up with that brave face as nothing's

going on. 

Dan Tocchini: they were all impacted too, [00:49:00] because they knew Eon, right? he was two and a half. But, I'd put him on the screen, we'd chat, and so we were all connected in it. But I have to say this, having a sense of humor helps. I mean, we don't, we remind each other that I don't know if there was a book we read years ago, and this guy said, remember rule number six, everybody goes, well, what's rule number six?

And rule number six is don't take yourself so seriously. people go off the edge. It's okay, let's give 'em some space. Now. Can we talk and let us know when we can talk Like we have different ways of bidding. Making a bid for to deal with it. Because one thing we all know is this needs to be talked about.

when and how do you wanna talk about it? So, we have different strategies that we've learned with each other that we can say, okay, when's it gonna work? Like my wife will look at me and she'll say, are you done throwing your tantrum? And I get a big smile on my face or, 'cause I'm a drama king, and I'll say, yeah, I'm done. Okay, good. Can we talk now? Sure. And then I'm [00:50:00] ready. So if you have ways to just. Know your rackets. Know the things you do to protect yourself. Be able to identify them. Don't let them have you, you own them. So when somebody, this is one of my daughter's favorite thing, okay dad, go give me 10 minutes of your drama.

Whatever. Just get it out. Rant. Do what you gotta do, then let's talk. I mean, we work with each other on the team the same way. If we see that somebody's struggling, we make room for 'em, but they know there is a time where we gotta talk about this. So how much time do you need to go through this?

Whatever you're going through, because it's not going away.

Jeffrey Feldberg: It goes back to what I said earlier. Show me your team, show me your culture. I will tell you your future and you are the living embodiment of it. Absolutely. Love that. Dan, let me ask you this before we go into wrap up mode. Is there a particular question that I haven't asked that comes to mind that you want to get out there for Deep Wealth Nation?

Dan Tocchini: I would ask, where does the future live? I ask my entrepreneurs, my friends, I, the guys I work with, [00:51:00] where does the future live? And there's all kinds of answers. People say, well, in the culture, where does the culture live? And. I would say pay attention to your language.

That's where the future lives. And notice how your, because how you talk about the future determines who you are. Now, if you think the future's dark, you're different now than somebody who thinks there's nothing but possibility coming their way. And neurologically, that's how we're built. Now, we might derive the future from past experience, but that will just give us more of what we already have.

And if somebody could see a way to break through what they already have. 'cause we are always looking for something new. So I always say, well, locate the future in your language. Notice how willing and curious you are about what it's gonna take to bring forth the possibility you want. One way of saying it is keep kicking at the indifference until it bleeds life. It's my kind of mantra.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And you know what's interesting, Dan, what you're [00:52:00] sharing, if I can put it in some other words and you can share Jeffrey OnBase off base, it's interesting because what the ancients have said for eons, science is finally catching up and confirming the same thing that our thoughts, our inner thoughts, that's what we manifest in our outer world.

And so you're right, if our inner thoughts, if the story or the stories that we're telling ourself it is negative, it's doom, it's gloom, guess what? That's exactly what's gonna

happen in all areas of our life. 

Dan Tocchini: You look likeor. That's one of the things. Oh, he's anor. Look 

Jeffrey Feldberg: That's right. That's right. Or if our narrative, if our story that we're telling yourself across all areas.

Okay. It's not a Pollyanna. Everything's perfect. I'm walking on a bed of roses. It's okay. Sure. These challenges, I'm gonna find some opportunities to help. Take me to the next level. It's gonna be okay. I have what it takes. I will figure this out. A very different outcome. Same person. Different narratives, different outcomes.

And so you're absolutely right and deep, both Nation a great takeaway. What's your narrative is a positive, is a [00:53:00] negative? Do you have a narrative? Are you letting other people tell you your narrative? A lot to think out there.

Dan Tocchini: read Ryan Holidays, the Obstacles The Way,

Jeffrey Feldberg: I love that story. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Tocchini: what reminded me of that. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. 

Dan that said, it's now wrap up time here and it's a tradition here on the Deep Podcast where every guest, it's my privilege, it's my honor to ask the same question across the board. And it's a fun question. Let me set this up for you. When you think of the movie Back to the Future, you have that magical DeLorean car that will take you to any point in time.

So Dan, the fun part is tomorrow morning you look outside your window. Not only is the DeLorean car curbside, the door is open, it is waiting for you to hop on in what you do, and you're now gonna go to. Any part of your past, perhaps Dan, as a young child, a teenager, whatever point in time it would be.

What are you telling your younger self in terms of life lessons or life wisdom or, Hey Dan, do this, but don't do that. What would it sound like?

Dan Tocchini: I would go back to when I was in high school and my parents were divorcing [00:54:00] and I was up against it. I would say to him, pause, get present with what's going on. Form a picture of what you want. And ponder what it's gonna take, and then stand. And don't get off it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I really like that. So pause, stop all that monkey chatter that's going on. it.

See where you're at. Know what you want.

Dan Tocchini: Show up, right? Get connected to with what's going on. 'cause I ran from the situation. But to get connected to it when I look back, there were possibilities I never saw that looked like threats. And I would say just pause and picture what you really want and then ponder how what you have could lead you to where you want to go.

'cause I just bailed and everything I needed was right there. It just, I couldn't see how to use it, how to stand in it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. Such great advice. I mean, how, for so many people, I mean, how many times do we hear, well, this happened and it's just a knee jerk reaction. Well, I just did this or I did that really without much thought. And yeah, we're under [00:55:00] pressure. We're not really prepared for that. But having that mantra or that ritual pause, lemme just get some clarity.

Okay, here's where we are. This is where I don't wanna be, but this is where I do wanna be. Now let me figure out how that's gonna happen. I absolutely love that. Some terrific advice. And speaking of advice, Dan, for Default Nation, a listener, they wanna work with you. They want their team to work with you.

They have some questions. Where would be the best place online to find you? I.

Dan Tocchini: Take new ground.com. Is our site. You can check that out. Everything's on there. You I'm on LinkedIn. I used to do more on Instagram, but I have an Instagram account and those are probably the three best ways to do it. We have our podcast the Naked Leadership Podcast.

There's 200 episodes. It's interesting how many people are still listening to it. I'm so honored that they still, they, I just got some. A gift in the mail. We haven't done it in a year, and I got a gift in the mail about, thank you. This, This thing's really been helpful. And so we've got that. So those are ways to get ahold of me.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Great news, [00:56:00] deep Wealth Nation. It doesn't get any easier. It's a point and a click. Go to the show notes. It's all there for you. Well, Dan, it's official. This is a wrap and as we love to say here, deep wealth. Firstly, congratulations. And as always, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe.

Thank you so much.

Dan Tocchini: Thank you, Jeffrey. I appreciate it. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: So there you have it, Deep Wealth Nation. What did you think? 

So with all that said and as we wrap it up, I have another question for you.

Actually, it's more of a personal favor. 

Did you find this episode helpful? 

Have you found other episodes of the Deep Wealth Podcast empowering and a game changer for your journey? 

And if you said yes, and I really hope you did, I have a small but really meaningful way that you can actually help us out and keep these episodes coming to you.

Are you ready for it? 

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So all that said. Thank you so much for listening. And remember your wealth isn't just about the money in the bank. It's about the depth of your journey and the impact that you're creating. So let's continue this journey together. And from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for listening to this episode.

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God bless.