455 Mark Vincent

Jeffrey Feldberg: [00:00:00] What happens when a trusted advisor spends decades helping leaders uncover meaning in their business and their lives? Mark L. Vincent isn't just a coach or consultant. He's a wisdom seeker who's guided CEOs, founders and high performing teams to make mission-driven decisions that last. As the founder of Design Group International and the creator of Maestro Level Leaders, Mark has spent a lifetime at the intersection of business growth and soulful leadership.

But his story does not start at the top. In fact, Mark's work was born from asking the hard questions. What does it mean to lead with integrity? 

How do we create lasting impact, not just profits? 

And what happens when entrepreneurs outgrow their own definitions of success?

With a background in systems thinking, theology and organizational strategy, Mark bridges worlds few can. His insights are deeply practical and profoundly human.

[00:01:00] Whether you're scaling your business or searching for deeper fulfillment in your leadership, Mark challenges us to stop chasing surface level success and instead to ask who are we becoming? 

This isn't a conversation about hacks or hustle. It's a Conversation about legacy, purpose and navigating the crossroads of business and meaning with clarity and grace. You'll never look at leadership the same way again.

And before we hop into the podcast, a quick word from our sponsor, Deep Wealth and the Deep Wealth Mastery Program. We have William, a graduate of Deep Both Mastery, and he says, I didn't have the time for Deep Both Mastery, but I made the time and I'm glad I did.

What I learned goes far beyond any other executive program or coach I've ever experienced. Or how about Bruce? Bruce says, before Deep Wealth Mastery, the challenge I had with most business programs, coaches, or blogs was that they were one dimensional. Through Deep Wealth Mastery, I'm part of a richer community of other successful business owners.

The idea shared forever changed the trajectory of the business and best [00:02:00] of all, the experience was fun. And we'll round things out with Stacey. 

Stacey said, I wish I had access to the Deep Wealth Mastery before my liquidity event, as it would have been extremely helpful. Deep Wealth Mastery exceeded my expectations in terms of content and quality.

And you know what, my Deep Wealth Nation, why they're saying this is because Deep Wealth Mastery, it's the only system based on a nine figure deal. That was my deal. And as you know, I said no to a seven figure offer, and I created a system that we now call Deep Wealth Mastery that helped myself and my business partners, welcome from a different buyer, a different offer, a nine figure exit.

So if you're interested in growing your profits, preparing for a future liquidity event, if that's two years away or 20 years away, and you want to optimize your post exit life, Deep Wealth Mastery is for you. Please email success at deepwealth. com. Again, that's success, S U C C E S S, at deepwealth. com. We'll send you all the information about Deep Wealth Mastery, otherwise known as Scale for Ultimate Sale. That's where you want to be. You want to [00:03:00] be with other successful business owners, entrepreneurs, and founders just like you who are looking to create Market disruptions.

And they want to lock in their financial freedom and have success and fulfillment. 

That's the 90 day Deep Wealth Mastery Program. It has your name on it. All you need to do is take the next step. Send an email to success at deepwealth. com.

Deep Wealth Nation welcome to another episode of the Deep Wealth Podcast. Let me ask you this, Deep Wealth Nation, when it comes to not just you, not just your business, when it comes to your life, where are you at? 

Are you happy? 

Are you fulfilled? 

Are you the opposite of that? 

And I gotta share with you more times than not, is not where we want it to be.

There's that fulfillment, that joy that just simply isn't there. But what if there was a way. It's very strategically with actual wisdom from the trenches that works, that can bring you purpose-driven success in a way that you've probably never heard or seen before. Do I have your interest? Well, I hope you do because we have in the House of Deep Wealth, a very special guest.

Mark, welcome to the Deep [00:04:00] Wealth Podcast. It's an absolute pleasure to have you with us, and there's always a story behind the story. Mark, what's your story? What got you from where you were to where you are today?

Mark L. Vincent: Thank you very much for the opportunity to have this conversation with you. I've been looking forward to this. And I've enjoyed diving into a number of the podcasts and getting a sense of this really meaningful work that you do and the great service you provide to people. For my own story, I think there's really two important things to talk about.

Two big kind of, let's just call 'em like, versus for the hymn that I'm singing. One is that when I was in graduate school, I started doing a lot of work in group process difficult decision making scenarios. And I was doing it at a time that Harvard negotiation project was coming out with things like the book, getting the Yes by Fisher and Erie.

It's a book that's still available today and language like win-win scenarios started to be used and teaming and brainstorming and mind mapping. It was all new stuff people said, I don't think I trust. This 'cause [00:05:00] I'm used to people just telling me what to do and I can then be mad at them because they're the big boss and they either know what they're doing or they don't know what they're doing.

But it's clear and I'm not used to it and I don't trust it if I'm being asked what I think. And there were some really interesting moments, but these methods work. They work very well. And so I would get tapped on the shoulder. Would you come help us? We're painted in a corner over here. We can't get the wealth transfer done.

We can't finish our capital campaign because the major donor has disappeared and is ghosting us. Although the word ghosting, like we use it now, didn't exist then, but they're not responding to our phone calls and what do we do? How do we figure it out? And when you're painted in a corner like that you have pain to get out.

I mean, you're gonna get paint on your shoes to crawl out the window, but you find your way out. And these methods worked enough that I'd get asked again, and then again. Ultimately I had to decide do I have an entrepreneurial bone? I did. I didn't know I did, but I did. And is there a full-time work here?

And then how should I construct it? And so, the student that I am, we [00:06:00] put together a business plan and off we were running. And in a year it was like, oh, wait a minute. All the founders dilemmas started to crop up. And how will we put this to work? I started using the same processes that I was using with clients I was using process consultation and Edgar Schein was kind of the godfather of that movement.

And we were using that and developing a firm that actually put that into practice and was really, to my knowledge, the first true organizational development firm that said. Process consulting is our face to the Market, not a tool in our toolbox. It's what we do. And it began to grow and grow.

So it's like, well, wait a minute, who's gonna take all the capitalization risk here? And who and this is at the point that when we started to really get going, that 2008 happens and it can't borrow on a signature loan anymore. And a number of things like that. So. We sold shares, sold partnerships, turned it into a firm with partners, and we grew it up so that really is the practice.

And along the way, my [00:07:00] own part within that got narrower and deeper as we brought people on. I. And I began to be focused on the succession event business continuity and succession, particularly for founders, and that's where I'm focused today. The second thing I should add is that it's just a major part of my life.

It's the second verse of this song as we started the business. My wife was diagnosed with cancer. She had a 15 year run before she passed away, 16 years. Actually it was in the 16th year she died. She had 19 occurrences. She was never in remission, ever. And so our fortune, if I were to put that in air quotes, went toward medical expenses and avoiding medical bankruptcy, and we were able to do that.

And she was able to die at home surrounded by family and at peace, and all was well. As far as that is concerned, but that is a shaping when you have this long, ongoing, never going away stress. And so we learned to manage that I think pretty well. We [00:08:00] learned to do multiple multi scenario planning all of the time.

 we also learned a little bit about succession because my wife, Lori, was our CFO at the time. And because we had done good continuity and succession planning, we were able to I won't say we didn't lose a step, but we didn't lose an entire step. We were able to keep going and make that move at the right time.

So, those would be two very important parts of my life and I think that's where I would start my story.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Wow. My goodness, Mark so much there in my heartfelt condolences with the passing of your wife and being so strong to be so vulnerable with us. And thank you for sharing that. My goodness. When you look at that for just a moment from the personal side, such a big loss that happened in your life, how do you put that in the whole life side?

Because one thing I've so often disagreed when I hear people say it out there, Jeffrey business is not personal, so just. Put on a happy face, go out there and do your stuff. And Mark, it's the biggest crock of BS [00:09:00] because what's going on with the inside, one way or another, our inner thoughts will shape our outer world.

And I'm wondering, in that challenging, perhaps dark period of your life, how did you do that? How did you get out there when on the personal side, you're dealing with that loss? And on the business side, people have. Their wants, their needs. They are looking for your help. They're depending on you. How do you deal with that?

Mark L. Vincent: There are three things that very quickly come to mind. One was my wife Lori's regular statement. I'm not gonna give cancer one more minute than it demands. Only that, nothing more. It has a way of focusing and sharpening a person if they choose to treat it that way. And I got to watch Lori do that over and over and over again.

Live a quality life, a peaceful life, a productive life. As her body and her capacity kept diminishing her impact, kept growing it, it was like converse dynamics. It was just amazing to watch and to the point, I'll just put this one little illustration in there. Her oncologist retired before she died.

That doesn't happen to [00:10:00] many cancer patients. And when he had moved about a thousand miles away and when I called him to say, Hey, Lori has passed, he said, I heard already. And I'm in my car driving north. I want to be present for her memorial service. And if it's possible, I'd like to give a eulogy.

I said actually that's why I'm calling you. Would you be willing to give that eulogy? Now that does not happen, but it did in Lori's case. And I think it really ties back to you live. You just keep living. You live it full, as full as you can and use what gifts you have. So that's one.

The second is that this has a way of this sustained kind of loss has a way of stripping you down to your essence. And our story wouldn't be the only story like that. And it's not the most tragic story. Many people, we all ultimately have some kind of a death story in front of us we'll collect experiences of loved ones and friends passing before their time and in their prime.

And so how we, address that and how we grow through that. We learn what really does matter and what matters is what I can do [00:11:00] today toward the things that I would like to see happen long term with the benefit of others in mind who will live on after me. I. And to have that as a central focus for everything has been very helpful.

'cause you really then stop sweating small stuff and the small stuff becomes a lot larger than people think. It's, I mean, there's a lot of things that people will just totally lose it. in my life experience, I'd say that's a small thing. And then the last piece that I would add is I think it goes to the BS reference you made earlier.

It's almost like an evil thing to think that we should approach life in a compartmentalized way. We compartmentalize when we're under stress and we're triaging and we're trying to get out of a crisis. I. But when we are well and healthy and whole, we want to be integrated. We want our body and our emotions and our intellect to all work together to give us perspective, to address what it is that we're after with good people doing good things.

And so, the integrated [00:12:00] course, even in the middle of stress, is what helped, really sustained me like to be able to get to this point of what do I want, what do I think, and what do I feel? And are those answers in agreement? Then I can trust my next step. But if they're not in agreement, I am not in a good place to be able to respond.

It's a sure sign, but I had to build that kind of reflective decision making or that reflection exercise in

Jeffrey Feldberg: My goodness. And as you're going through that journey, I'm wondering, Mark, go back for just a moment. When would've been the first moment in your life where you felt that this is some, maybe it works for other people, is just not working for me. I. What was that like? When did that light bulb or that realization go off for you?

Mark L. Vincent: I'm trying to think of an example of when I would've said that's not working for me. And probably in my early twenties. I wrote an article about this a couple of years back. I found a picture of me now and a picture of me in my twenties. And I have a very [00:13:00] different face. Not just 'cause I'm older or because I had hair then, and I don't know, my face in my twenties had a Ory grin on it.

And it was hard charging. I'm competent. We can make a difference. We're gonna do big things, and I brought that to my life and my career and all of that would be true. However, you have these moments when you're a hard charger where you turn around and you say, where is everybody? I. you leave them in your dust.

They're not coming along behind you. You're they're not sure they wanna follow you, because you're not listening to them. You're not drawing on their gifts, you're not developing them. You're taking, but you're not giving. Even though it's good, it's still not team.

And I began to see that others were leading much better than I. Was leading. Even if I could look at skills, competences, life experiences and say, wow, I can overmatch that, but they're accomplishing more. What is that? They did a much [00:14:00] more effective job of gathering people. Drawing them out and beginning to build as a team.

That's what led me into my graduate work where I'm saying I've gotta figure out a better way to be able to bring teams along and to understand how to do complex decision making and, and to bring people together that might have different opinions. How does that get done? I didn't have handles and I didn't have training, and that's what sent me to graduate school, and then everything else began to build from there.

Jeffrey Feldberg: As you're going through the graduate school program and you're now well along into your journey, although be it early days still, I'm wondering because researching for today. One of the things that stood out for me with your work is all about legacy, not just profit. Again, very different. More times than not all we hear about focus on the profits, get across the finish line.

That's all it is. Beginning, middle, and end, but not with you. And so when we're talking about legacy, not just profit, maybe in addition to the prophet and legacy, finding that blend, where did that mindset [00:15:00] begin to come from and how far back? And then how did that shape your journey?

Mark L. Vincent: You're making me miss my father who passed away a couple of years ago. He. was a million dollar round table insurance salesman when that actually meant something. 'cause a million was a big deal at that point. And he knew that he had a precocious son on his hands with me. maybe by about the time I was nine or 10 years old, he began to surround me with mentors.

I just thought it was natural and normal that yeah, of course guys would call you up and say, Hey, can I take you out to breakfast on a Saturday? And they'd take you along on their errands and sit you down and buy you a Wendy's hamburger and talk with you about something and kind of impart a life skill.

And Dad just kind of put salt in my bread of life all throughout into my adolescence where. People, women and men, older and younger, some even my own age sewed into me, literally spoke into my life, gave of themself, and I thought, this is the way humans operate with each other. I was naive.

And so I grew up [00:16:00] with this fantastic network of people who spoke truth to me. They didn't just say, here's something I wanna praise you for. Here's something I believe in. They pointed out things I could correct, but they did it in a generous and gentle way. And so. early on for me it became if I am moving into adulthood, it's all, pay it forward.

It's not accumulate this. And when I was really getting going in my career I had a very profound insight that really put this into cement for me. The Boomer generation on a whole. Is the first generation that, by many counts, will have spent the inheritance that they received, spent all of their income that they earned in life and will have borrowed against the future generation three generations of income being consumed.

And not necessarily passed along. Now if you talk to the philanthropic community, they will say there's trillions now that are [00:17:00] gonna transition from the boomer to their children. And I would say you don't know that because they still have to live in their eldest years and some kind of a retirement community or home often, which will eat all of that income up as well.

Plus the fact that we've borrowed for infrastructure costs, as a community or as a, as a nation going forward. So the idea of living in such a way that others can be blessed and be able to be launched into their life rather than creating obstacles for them, that just became so important because that's how I was treated.

And I obviously have had some hard lessons that people aren't always that nice and I just consider myself so fortunate and I've wanted to live that way myself.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Wow, what a gift that your father back in the day when you're so young, I mean, talk about a legacy right there and really setting you up for success. Of being around people, I would suppose probably different walks of life, sharing with you at such a young age, mentoring you really [00:18:00] having you go along a path that likely on your own.

Maybe eventually you would've got to it, but probably not, and you're taking that for your entire life. From that point forward, talk about a gift and.

Mark L. Vincent: it was.

Jeffrey Feldberg: gift that keeps on giving. And again, thank you so much for sharing that with us and being so open with us. So let's talk now with some of the advisory that you're doing, Mark.

And I'm gonna ask an unfair question. I'm gonna ask it anyways. And I would completely agree if you said, Jeffrey, hey, every individual, every business, they are unique. They have their own journey. One is not the same as the other. Right. And I get that. I agree. Generally speaking though, it's all about patterns, at least for me.

And is it the good old PATOS law, the 80 20 principle where hey, 20% of these characteristics, these actions or inactions are creating 80% of the challenges that are out there. So when people are coming to you for help, hey, we can't do this, or Our back is up against the wall, Mark, you gotta figure something out for us.

Are you seeing patterns that jump out for you?

Mark L. Vincent: Definitely. When [00:19:00] we first got on here, you kind of shared with me the makeup of Deep Wealth Nation, and I think my executive advising practice would mirror that in many ways. Everything from a startup to, a billion dollar entity, partnerships and stockholder corps that are publicly traded and technology and healthcare and all that mix.

And so you have an opportunity if you think about. Rendering knowledge, like I do more from I'm in it like a phenomenologist would be, rather than a clinical scientist step stepping way back and watching from here, you're in it, you're wrestling with it with people. You begin to see some patterns over time.

So I completely agree. And at the same time, those patterns are lived in unique contexts, in unique Marketplaces among uniquely talented people and teams. And so you have the same stuff, but always in a different. Coat, let's say. So a couple of the things that I really pay attention to. One is, [00:20:00] are they a learning organization?

And are these leaders, learning leaders? Are they tempting to trade off of what they already know? So if, we're in a, I know stuff. Mode. They're gonna take two and three and four times as long to figure things out because they'll have to do forensics on the stuff that they believed in, which unpacks a lot of emotion and sorrow that we got it wrong.

And what's the matter with me? And, And it should have worked. Maybe we should try it again. Maybe we can get other investors and we'll just keep doing what we do until it lands and you just no. Instead of. What do we have here? What do we have here? What else might we try? What if we experiment and take more of an adaptive approach?

Groups get stuck in that and maybe they last a decade before they have to fold or before they have to fold up into something else because that something else has a better operating system and is able to make that work because they're learning as they go. So that's a huge one. The other one that I really think about a lot is the mi developing others who [00:21:00] can take it from here, or is this only about me?

If it is only about me, then I'm just building this up. And the people in particular are tools for me to be able to accumulate and bail whether I'm the owner or I am the compensated CEO. And just to make a little side note here, I. There's a study I was looking at just about a month ago that was demonstrating that the amount of money on a percentage basis that compensated CEOs, hired CEOs to receive is now infringing on what owners are able to take.

Out, especially small and mid-cap businesses because of the competition for qualified CEOs for the C-suite. So you have that thing of what are we doing this for? Am I doing it to be able to create a wealth engine that will live beyond me and others can take from here? Maybe my family, maybe the employees, maybe something else.

Or is this just simply to be able to get in, get out, because I take out and then I go over here. And I'm parking [00:22:00] that wealth. And in that second type that I'm taking it for myself, you often will see really badly formed decisions being made that has them bleeding talent creatives, strong entrepreneurial leaders, bail because there's no.

Next step for them. So they end up looking for where else can I go? Give it a try. Maybe I'll start my own company. Maybe I'll go over here where I'll be welcomed. But that is often becomes a cycle, like a washing machine cycle that kind of an entrepreneur lives through. They may ultimately get their wealth, but it will be hard won and there will be some carcasses along the side of the road as they get there.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So interesting. As you're going through that, and actually as you're talking about that, you're actually bringing me back to your book, so Deep Wealth Nation, go to the show notes, and in the show notes there'll be a link. There's a number of books that. Are there the one that I'm thinking of right now, listening, helping, learning core competencies of process consulting [00:23:00] and people nation, you may be saying come on listening.

Yeah, of course. I've been listening all my life. I know what that's about. And that said, Mark, I find that listening, proper type of listening is for me, probably one of the most challenging things for me to be able to do. I have that chatter going on, that monkey brain going on, all these different kinds of thoughts that are going on.

Talk to us about listening and how to really listen to really hear someone to be in that moment can turn any situation into possibly a magnificent situation. That opportunity to have that breakthrough or to do something truly extraordinary, what's going on with listening. On the one hand, we're just not doing it right, and then on the other, when we do get it right, what we can do with that.

Mark L. Vincent: Thank you for that question. Listening. Ultimately is about perceiving. So we listen, not just to get information or what we're looking for, because if that's the case, we're actually not listening, we're listening for something, we're not listening to the person. So if we're gonna listen, I mean like fully attend, [00:24:00] it's about being able to perceive everything.

So it's not just using my ears, it's using my eyes. You and I are both on camera, but we're squared up to each other. We're looking at each other and we're taking turns, and we're making sure we understand. And if I didn't understand something you asked, it's appropriate for me to say, could you repeat the question or Let me make sure I've got the question right, so that we're able to have an exchange and we can perceive what's in front of us if we can't do that.

We can't work together to do something where we would've co-created help, like our next step, a way to solve the problem. And if we're not listening throughout that, how are we going to learn and to be able to pass that learning on to others. So I often talk about these as nested inside each other. We listen.

And we listened so well that a person on the other side of the conversation can say, you just said that. You just played that back Better than I did. Better than I said it. You got me. All right. Now we can get into an exchange with some assurance that we [00:25:00] actually do perceive and understand, and we're not gonna have to have a subsequent conversation that starts with this.

But I thought that, and then we're off and running, replaying a conversation, which wastes time and money. So we slow down. To listen. We square up, we empty out, we do turn off our phones. We do get down to one screen, and if we have another screen open, it's with a reference or we've got a paper beside us so we don't have a line of sight that's blocked because most of our brain is wired for visual perception, not just auditory.

So if we're really good at listen with our ears, we're even better when our eyes can also see and our distance is such that we can connect in some way. Because our bodies are tuned to it. And I found for me, this is just me, but I actually try to point my feet in the direction of who I'm listening to because my whole body follows, and otherwise I start turning to the side and listen like this with my ear pointing towards you.

But to [00:26:00] you it would look like I'm looking away. And so getting that right puts us in a spot where we can play back. But if we're actually leading a business. We've got problems to solve and they're really complex. We need to be able to proceed well enough that we can see the architecture of the problem and the process that we're gonna follow going forward.

Like why this matters. Who's gonna play what role? What's the criteria for success? When does this need to be done? How are we gonna proceed without answers to those questions? We're not gonna be together. And we're not gonna get those answers unless we're listening to each other. And when we're listening in that way, we actually start listening together to the opportunity that's in front of us, or the problem that we want to address that's in front of us.

And we're no longer across the table from each other talking and listening. We're actually looking at this thing that we're working. And we're listening to it together. Now we're in tune now. We've examined it. We're in tune to actually act on it in concert without a lot of, [00:27:00] but I thought that conversations that follow.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Mark, as you're talking about that, and I'm reflecting on the book, it's contextually, we're listening in that way we can then move on to architecturally and then adaptively.

 And once we have that down, only then and not before, can we begin to help and then at the same time learn. And it's such a core in terms of what we do and part of the human experience. It's a jaded question. I'm gonna ask it though, bit of a leading question and guilty as charged. We're gonna get ask it though. With social media and we have these 20, 32nd clips or sound bites or very short, abbreviated messages. How has that changed the social programming and how has that changed for the next generation of leaders? How they're perceiving not just themselves, but our world and the people around them.

Mark L. Vincent: Yeah because it was a leading question and an old question perhaps, and guilty is charged. I'll just answer with a bold statement. I think it's a toxic brew, [00:28:00] and I think another ingredient in that brew, besides the quick hit of the adrenaline, by scrolling scrolling.

We've also mixed that with a short termism on the business front where what we did today, what we did this week, what we did in the most current reporting period trumps what we're doing for the long term. And it becomes the only real reference point for how we report to shareholders or how we talk to the company employees.

So we're not talking about what we're building, what the long-term goal is, what the career arc is across 20 years and how we want to build and grow. And. All while we're working for future value because our current products aren't gonna carry the day in 20 years. We have to be able to be looking at where else in the Market are there good things for us to be doing that nobody's doing yet?

How do we get there first? Or how do we improve on what's happening so that we have a reason to keep offering this work across the next 20 years. So with that short-termism and those quick hits on the social media where everything is so fast we only react, we don't form full. [00:29:00] Thoughts and we don't have conversations with it and we don't interrogate it.

That means that the workers coming to us out of college, out of high school maybe they've worked in other careers or in other places for a while, they're not coming to us. Formed for this kind of reflective, thoughtful cadence that begins to build momentum and a flywheel effect for an organization to accomplish its goals.

I'm just of the school of thought now that we have to build this into onboarding. Of employees. We cannot assume that no matter where they went to college or what their experience has been, that they're ready to work in a system that we're putting together that would have a strong and agreeable culture.

And if they're really good, then help us make it better. you draw on those gifts that they're already developed. But on the whole, we can't assume that just 'cause we tell someone, you know, you could listen more, that they actually will, we're not equipping them to listen.

Jeffrey Feldberg: It's interesting, Mark, because as you're talking about that, you're actually taking me back very early on in my own entrepreneurial journey. [00:30:00] And I'm gonna date myself here. There wasn't the social media like we have today, nowhere near, it just didn't exist. And if I'm honest about Embanet, my e-learning company, there's version one and version two.

Version one. Being honest about it, it was a good company. I can't really say it was a great company and we were trotting along. It was, and I wouldn't have used these words back then. I didn't understand it. You and I hadn't spoke, but it was that listening. It was that listening that led to Embanet 2, which went on to create a Market disruption and Embanet 2, it wasn't a good company.

It was a great company. And what's interesting about that is we actually built that into our nine step roadmap, step two X factors. And it's, we say it in a different way. We say it's the magic wand question. And for me, the magic wand question, I was speaking with a client. Client's name was John, actually, and John was the dean of the business school at Colorado State University.

And I said, John, what keeps you up [00:31:00] at night these days? And he went on to speak for two or three minutes, and I was just intently listening and I was curious, and he had a problem. Nothing to do with what we were doing at the time in my naivete. I said, John, leave it with me. I'll come back with a solution in two, three weeks.

Well, Mark, it took two, three years. But that said, because I listened. Because I heard him, I saw him. He was my entire focus for that very brief conversation. That led to a Market disruption. And as they say, the rest is history. And so as I talk about that, I'm gonna just chalk that up to luck. I'd rather be lucky than smart.

I'm not saying that I'm smart. I was lucky and I just happened to ask that. It came a little bit natural to me. But I do wonder, and you do talk about this, I want to revisit emotional intelligence, and I know you have some technology with that Mygrow EQ development and it's some technology that you've put together for a company, for the leadership team.

Big, small, medium, something in between. So talk to us about emotional intelligence, the role that that, [00:32:00] it all plays with us, but then specifically the Mygrow technology of what you've done and what that can do for me as the founder, for me, as my team, wanting to really make a difference, a Market disruption out there.

Mark L. Vincent: Thanks for putting this into the mix. I was talking with someone not too long ago who was saying, look, yeah, we need to be nice. So isn't that all that this is? And so I'd like to suggest that a lot of the EQ conversation is starting with what is emotional intelligence and how is it grown and what use is it?

I came to it in reverse, so I'm working at executive leader development and I'm looking at planful forms of succession and the development of the successor. And there's nothing like that moment for, oh, a fairly undeveloped ego to get in the way and kind of bring down the house of cards. And those stories happen all the time.

And that this very famous television show succession wasn't built out of just a fiction. There are too many. Stories like that out there that you can draw on to have this [00:33:00] family drama around all of that stuff. So I'm working backwards from that to what's underneath it. What's underneath it, and what's underneath it.

What comes down to the its base are people who are in a position of power or influence, or they have the money, they have the. Bank book who are not aware of themselves, they're not aware of the effect that they're having on others, which means then the others don't want to go with them. And any moment a weakness is shown, boom, it's gonna be grabbed, it's gonna be rested from their control.

They're gonna be out. There's gonna be bitterness, there's gonna be a loss of future wealth. And many people who've staked their claim in that organization are gonna find themselves on the outside. So if we start at that base, what are we doing? We're making sure that people are aware of themself. And the effect they have on others, but even more, especially if you're leading an organization, being able to understand others and what their trigger points are and how they learn and the emotions that come from them that either help them or block them in a certain moment so that you can draw your team together so you're not [00:34:00] just listening to your business problem.

The business case, the operational procedure, you're actually listening to the people and working that in as a singular process. So when you begin to say, all right, how do we change adults? How do we help adults grow? Let's really well establish that the two hour workshop doesn't do it. A three day getaway and learn about things can be very inspirational, but the retention and the changes that are made don't happen because three people came back from a place and tried to do something that 300 people didn't experience.

So what I loved about learning about MI is that it was the only technology I could find. That was inexpensive enough that you could scale it to a whole organization. The other things that are out there are very good, are much more priced and set up to be for the top of the organization. And what, again, what we know is it doesn't filter down unless this is their cause and they're giving themselves to teaching it, modeling it, [00:35:00] facilitating it.

How do you get it to the person who's your front line and then. Begin to also build up. So I like the fact that its price point was great, but rewiring your brain. It's following what we know about neurology. and the adult learning model, you work at this 10 minutes a day atomic habit style, for 30 days, and you're working at positivity and then you're working at the next one around self regard and the next one around decision making.

And they have something like 16 competencies that you worked through in about a year and a half. And you can do it in cohorts, five to seven people across your organization, maybe people who are on the same teams. And so you do this daily thing, logging at your desk, or you use your mo phone and you do your 10 minutes.

You take this little quiz, you watch this really little entertaining video with great animation, and then you do your little practice and there's an AI engine behind the scenes that grades you, that says, Hey, you didn't really answer the question. You just put gobbledygook in your answers.

That kind of thing. So you can't gain. This thing. And then weekly [00:36:00] you're meeting around a table with your teammates you're talking about, what did I learn the other thing at Mygrow and there's monthly and quarterly kind of things with that. But the other thing that Mygrow did that was unique, I've not found anywhere else that I really love is if we're doing this in a company, let's say you and I are on the same team, we'd also have a plus one license.

So that means we can sign up a spouse. A partner, a child, a very good friend. And so that in our personal life out here, there's a similar conversation happening as there is in my work. So it's a whole person experience and I have found with the companies I've helped get started with it, what's happening at home in the personal life is magnificent.

Like it, it has a big splash and they say that's the most important thing. What we're doing at work is great. This able to explain what I'm feeling to my wife or my son and I had a heart to heart, my daughter and I went out and we talked these things through in a way that we never could before and it means all the world.

And then they bring that new approach back into work. So just seeing Mygrow do it at [00:37:00] scale and that whole person approach, I just began to put it in my toolbox. So if I'm doing executive advising with someone, I can work at them on an in with that, on an individual basis, and they've got a day in, day out.

Kind of piece that they can do, or if they're working at it inside a company and ready to do it at a corporate level, then you have all this extra reinforcement built in. And I've liked it in both regards.

Jeffrey Feldberg: When it comes to EQ or emotional intelligence, I've heard different schools of thought, but one school of thought, somewhat cynical. Hey, Jeffrey. Either you have it or you don't. And if your upbringing brought you to the point where you just don't have it good luck. You can try all you want, go through all the programs, use whatever software, or read the books or the webinars, but you are who you are and it's just not gonna change.

And just accept it and make the best of it. So where are you on that? If I wasn't perhaps born with or not showing up high on the emotional intelligence side of things. Can I improve that? Is that like a muscle where if I go to the gym on a regular basis, I do the right things, the right [00:38:00] exercises have the right habits, I can build some muscle.

How about my emotional intelligence, my EQ muscle? I.

Mark L. Vincent: I like that question. Mygrow actually would use the same analogy. They'd say. This is like going to an online gym for your, how you manage your emotions to have awareness. You can grow awareness, right? And with awareness, you have choice. And so you can either exercise the emotion or channel it into a better place and let it support you rather than derail you.

So can you grow consciousness of what's going on in you? Yes, you can. Can you grow your range of choices? Yes, you can. Does that mean the fundamental things of triggers? What makes you angry or embarrassed or ashamed that might not change because you have this life script that's, grown in you.

But let me just quickly offer somewhat vulnerable, but I think an instructive story outta my own experience with this. When I started going through that Mygrow stuff, learning about it, testing it, trying it I had some experiences in my family where one of my children said Hey dad. You might not say anything, but we know you're judging us, and that [00:39:00] was a harsh and needed word.

Because I was not saying anything, I was not acting on it. But they can feel me thinking about it and wrestling with myself and choking back anger or a desire to make something happen differently or trying to not exercise control. And that really boils down to my inability to be empathetic on a personal level.

And when I took the Mygrow assessment initially where they kind of measure where you are, indeed, it was about the same time I had my little, they do it in a circle. Mine looked like Pacman. So it be Pacman, that little mouth going open down. And that little indentation was empathy. So here I had this personal feedback and breaking my heart, and then here's this data that's saying, you have some, but you could really grow this. And so, when I got into the section on empathy with Mygrow, I remember just a number of mornings in 10 minutes, I'm sitting there like I'm reduced to a puddle. And I'm also growing [00:40:00] because I'm like, oh, I had no idea.

 oh, how come my mentors never taught me this? All those kinds of things. And at the backend, you take the assessment again and you could see Marked growth. And indeed, I would've family members saying, I can tell you're different. I could tell that you're present, that you've worked on this and thank you.

that was a great relief to me 'cause I actually felt some agony to think that my children would see me as a judgmental force in their lives.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Love how children can bring out. The worst in us, usually is best in us and just do for us what nothing else or nobody else can. Just the love of a parent for a. And again, you've been incredibly vulnerable and open with us. And so with that said, I'm wondering before we go into wrap up mode when it comes to leadership, and my goodness, with your incredible background of where you've been and what you've done with that, what would be a hard truth Mark, a hard truth about leadership that you wish [00:41:00] more people were willing to both acknowledge and then actually talk about?

Mark L. Vincent: Boy, there are two items that come to my mind very rapidly. One is that you really don't control very much. You just don't. And to know that helps you weather the ups and the downs and remain humble. I. The other one, I think as I've been learning more as I've grown older and now have walked with many people who've had marvelously successful careers, and I'll say it the way one of my clients said it.

He said, I thought that if I wasn't prostrate on my floor in my house by Friday night, I wasn't working hard enough. If I wasn't utterly exhausted, I didn't leave it all in the field and I didn't do everything I could for everybody that I should do. And what he had learned later in life is if he didn't manage his body battery, he would keep flaming out and get into a burnout place as opposed to being able to have a 40 year career that kept building and building because he worked smarter rather than harder.

Because our energy declines over time. And if we're trying to maintain [00:42:00] it through supplements and dietary regimens and all, it might delay some of that loss of energy, but it does not do the thing that helps us have what my longtime colleague, Kristin Evenson would call. We grow a kick ass search engine in our.

Heads and in our bodies by learning all of life so that as our energy starts to decline and we can't do all that we once did, we can be more effective than we ever were. And so that, that. Embracing learning and embracing margin in order to bring your brain to work tomorrow in top shape as opposed to, yawning and being in fatigue mode all the time and being exhausted.

I wish I'd learned that earlier too. We all end up, somewhere in our fifties and sixties bearing the brunt of it, whether it's the ulcer or. Inflammation or some other thing that's starting to crop up and it's like our tennis elbow that comes from overuse of those parts of our body.

We'll collect those if we don't get that earlier, and they'll have earlier [00:43:00] onset if we don't learn that lesson earlier.

Jeffrey Feldberg: It's so apropos because it really goes back to a different form of listening, not listening to another person, listening to ourselves, that inner voice, our body, the sensations that we're getting, that we could take ourselves off, likely a destructive path, which is so typical for so many entrepreneurs and put us onto a much healthier, a better path.

It's amazing how it really all ties back together. It goes back to that foundational art and the skill and the science. Of being able to listen. And so Mark, with all that said, oh my goodness. I came in here with a list of questions. I haven't even begun to scratch the surface as we bump up again some time here.

But I'm wondering, is there one question that I haven't yet asked that you'd like to put out there and answer? For the Deep Wealth Nation.

Mark L. Vincent: There's, I'm not sure quite how to word the question other than like. you know what really matters in the end, maybe of a business if you're gonna grow this thing, and I don't think there should be any shame at all in [00:44:00] saying, I want to see this produce a certain amount of wealth that I and my family will manage.

It's the what you're going to do with that And the noble intent of that, that I think you want to have figured out as well. Otherwise, it becomes pretty caustic. It becomes empty. So knowing that is really important. But there is a second option for an end, which is I. The actual mission of the organization that you've established.

And for a lot of founders, they got into this 'cause there's a way they wanted to bring something to the Marketplace and they wanna make a difference in the world. And when that's the case, the money might not be something that you accumulate for self. Oh, you might make a decent amount of money.

But that. Enterprise is what you want to see continue. So how you bolster that, how you make that work. And I was just with a delightful client last week who's got a business that's now running 150 years now. He's not been at the head of that thing. They're in a fourth generation and they are the second family [00:45:00] to own it.

And they do wonderful things, but it's not about how big the business grows, it's about preserving the margin. Because they keep adding to a fund that they use for charitable intent. And so they've figured out their engine, and that becomes the end. And they want to give dignifying work to people who are craftspeople in what they do.

So knowing which of those directions, either the accumulation of, let's call it deep wealth for really noble purposes, helps it be retained and continue on as opposed to disappearing through your fingers. And then the other option of an end is this. Really accomplishing a mission and making it possible for it to continue.

So the question is something in the area of what's the end in mind here and how do we know it's a good end? What I would say is if it's, rather self-centered, it has a real high potential of melting right in front of you.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Interesting. And before we go into wrap up mode with what you just said, how then would you define generational wealth? Because what I'm hearing you [00:46:00] describe right now, it's a very different explanation than what one would typically hear out there. So for you, with the clients that you're working with, for people that are now coming into your community.

What is generational wealth? How would that differ from how most people believe it is or what they talk about it?

Mark L. Vincent: think of generational wealth as kind of a, again, a unique recipe to the person. So this is a question you ask them, what is it that you want? What is it that you want for your family? What is it that you want for your employees and for this business? And do you want it to all be at zero at the time of your death?

Do you want it to continue on in some way? And you start an architecture like this, just like you did with the business in the first place? I often draw a business model as an hourglass with the top half up and out to the Marketplace at the executive, at the middle, and down underneath it. Is the foundation that bolsters it, ownership, governance the shareholder and stakeholder relationships that feed that, and that [00:47:00] part down at the bottom often does not have as much infrastructure, as much detail, as much strategy built into it as everything out to the Marketplace.

When I'm done with it and I pull out, if I don't have anything underneath there, who's gonna govern this? Who's gonna run it? To what ends, how do they know what I want? And how do they know what they want? And that part just gets not formed well, but we tend to form our strategy for the next two to three years really?

So I wanna make sure that it's full orb. I think generational wealth has to have an atlas kind of foundation underneath it that's pretty well rendered, just like we would our business plan.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So interesting because for most, it's probably an afterthought. If an afterthought at all is just something it's out there. Yeah. I know Sarah, we'll get to when we get to it, usually that doesn't happen and.

Mark L. Vincent: Yeah.

Jeffrey Feldberg: We see where that goes. Interesting. I really appreciate how you're looking at things and helping us to find things that, hey, Deep Wealth nation, take what we're talking about here and [00:48:00] begin to apply this for yourself.

So that said, Mark, we're gonna go into wrap up mode, and it's a tradition here on the Deep Wealth podcast. It's really my privilege, my honor, to ask the same question to every guest. It's a fun question Mark. I'm gonna set this up for you. When you think of the movie Back to the Future, you have that magical DeLorean car that will take you to any point in time.

Mark, I want you to imagine now, it's tomorrow morning. This is the fun part. You look outside your window and not only do you see the DeLorean car, it's outside, but it's curbside door open, waiting for you to hop on in which you do, and you're now gonna go to any point in your life. Mark, as a young child, a teenager, whatever point in time it would be.

What are you telling your younger self in terms of life lessons or life wisdom or, Hey Mark, do this, but don't do that. What would it sound like?

Mark L. Vincent: Wow. I really think I would want to get back to my college years and I would like to be [00:49:00] able to sit down with a couple of key people and I am hoping that they would all be traveling back with me so that we have the same privilege. There's a picture that I have on my desk of my wife and I graduating from college.

We were married our senior year of college, and next to us is the woman who is my wife now, and her fiance at the time. My wife is now deceased and her fiance, they married, they had a long marriage, he's now deceased. Just about nine years ago, we married and our children kind of encouraged us to get together and we had been corresponding and kind of helping each other across about a 400 mile geography.

So here was a safe person, knew my whole life story. I knew her whole life story. We're communicating about how we're handling, being, parents of adult children and aging parents and all of that. And it would be really fun to sit down and say who would've thought? And isn't it a gift to have lifelong relationships that you can.

Cherish, [00:50:00] isn't it wonderful to be loved? Isn't it wonderful to have a family that wants your wellbeing? Isn't that what wealth really is? Isn't that what we want our money to serve? And it hasn't it? And I don't really have a lot where I'd say I wish it could be different. I think, again, that's this fortune that I have, solid family, solid mentoring, good experiences, and I've had a lot of heartache.

And in that heartache that. That set of abundant type of relationships has fed me, and hopefully I've been able to pass that along. So to go back and be able to sit and have a retrospective looking forward with appreciation rather than with regret, what a gift that is.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Wow, there was so much there. And it's interesting, it's really full circle because. As you're saying, treasure the gift of lifelong relationships. And that's actually how we started our conversation with your father unknowingly to you, having different mentors very early in life, take you by the side and show you what their version of [00:51:00] life is and having you internalize that and I.

What's also interesting and it's actually a common theme with very successful people that I've seen, they've shown the same thing. You're successful as well. There's a wealth to life that has nothing to do with business or zeros in the bank, and it brings such joy and fulfillment and you can't buy it. It's gotta be earned and it has to be authentic. And it's just part of this journey that you've been sharing and so deep, both Nation, I really hope that you are listening to that and paying close attention. What a gift Mark that you shared with us. And speaking of the Deep Nation, just before we wrap up.

Mark, someone in the Deep health nation, they have a question for you. They want your help for them, for their company, for their team, maybe for their family. They're talking about legacy now for the business, whatever it may be. Where would be the best place online to reach you?

Mark L. Vincent: I would welcome any of those conversations. I am here to listen and think alongside and walk alongside. And sometimes that turns into a, a relationship. More often than not, it just points to a deeper connection. And here's a connection to make for [00:52:00] you, but Markel vincent.com, we'll put a person in touch with me.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Depop Nation does not get any easier and is all in the show notes. It's a point and click go there, and while you're there, hey, why not pick up Mark's book, listening, helping, learning. It'll change the way. Not only that you approach your business, but you approach your life with your personal relationships and everything else in between.

That said, congratulations, Mark. It's official. This is a wrap and as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. Thank you so much. 

So there you have it, Deep Wealth Nation. What did you think? 

So with all that said and as we wrap it up, I have another question for you.

Actually, it's more of a personal favor. 

Did you find this episode helpful? 

Have you found other episodes of the Deep Wealth Podcast empowering and a game changer for your journey? 

And if you said yes, and I really hope you did, I have a small but really meaningful way that you can actually help us out and keep these episodes coming to you.

Are you ready for it? 

The dramatic pause. I'll just wait a moment. Drumroll, [00:53:00] please. Subscribe. Please subscribe to the Deep Wealth podcast on your favorite podcast channel. When you subscribe to the Deep Wealth Podcast, you're saving yourself time. Every episode automatically comes to you, and I want you to know that we meticulously craft Every one of our episodes to have impactful strategies, stories, expert insights that are designed to help you grow your profits, increase the value of your business, and yes, even optimize your post exit life and your life right now, whatever you want that to look like.

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So all that said. Thank you so much for listening. And remember your wealth isn't just about the money in the bank. It's about the depth of your journey and the impact that you're creating. So let's continue this journey together. And from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for listening to this episode.

And as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. 

Thank you so much. 

God bless.