441 Kayvon Kay

Jeffrey Feldberg: [00:00:00] Kayvon Kay is the mastermind behind sales strategies that don't just work, but revolutionize. Growing up in a tough town, he didn't just overcome obstacles. He used them as stepping stones to greatness, training over 30, 000 sales professionals and skyrocketing a business to $38 million swiftly. Kayvon makes sales exciting, authentic, and above all, highly effective.

And before we hop into the podcast, a quick word from our sponsor, Deep Wealth and the Deep Wealth Mastery Program. We have William, a graduate of Deep Both Mastery, and he says, I didn't have the time for Deep Both Mastery, but I made the time and I'm glad I did.

What I learned goes far beyond any other executive program or coach I've ever experienced. Or how about Bruce? Bruce says, before Deep Wealth Mastery, the challenge I had with most business programs, coaches, or blogs was that they were one dimensional. Through Deep Wealth Mastery, I'm part of a richer community of other successful business owners.

The idea shared forever changed the trajectory of the business and best of all, the experience was [00:01:00] fun. And we'll round things out with Stacey. 

Stacey said, I wish I had access to the Deep Wealth Mastery before my liquidity event, as it would have been extremely helpful. Deep Wealth Mastery exceeded my expectations in terms of content and quality.

And you know what, my Deep Wealth Nation, why they're saying this is because Deep Wealth Mastery, it's the only system based on a nine figure deal. That was my deal. And as you know, I said no to a seven figure offer, and I created a system that we now call Deep Wealth Mastery that helped myself and my business partners, welcome from a different buyer, a different offer, a nine figure exit.

So if you're interested in growing your profits, preparing for a future liquidity event, if that's two years away or 20 years away, and you want to optimize your post exit life, Deep Wealth Mastery is for you. Please email success at deepwealth. com. Again, that's success, S U C C E S S, at deepwealth. com. We'll send you all the information about Deep Wealth Mastery, otherwise known as Scale for Ultimate Sale. That's where you want to be. You want to be with other successful business [00:02:00] owners, entrepreneurs, and founders just like you who are looking to create market disruptions.

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Welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast and Deep Wealth Nation here's one of my many rhetorical questions for you. Would you love to catapult your sales, your revenues, your profits? And of course, you're saying yes. Right behind that, though, you're saying, well, Jeffrey, how do I do that? Maybe you're even saying, well, I'm not really a salesperson, or I don't really have a sales team.

I don't have a great sales team. What do I do? Where do I turn? Where should I look? Stop your search. You're going to come out of this episode a whole lot better. We have a very special guest today in the house of deep wealth Kayvon. Welcome to the deep wealth podcast. It's really a pleasure to have you with us.

I'm so excited. There's always a story behind the story. What is your story Kayvon? What got you from where you were to where you are today?

Kayvon Kay: What a low way [00:03:00] they start out with that loaded question. I love it. Uh, What's my story? I mean, when it comes to sales we're talking over now 30 years of sales experience. I was fortunate enough to build a business in 2018. We went from zero to uh, 38 million dollars in 18 months. Teaching people how to become high ticket closers on the internet.

And then from there I built out a company called The Sales Connection, where we've done over 375 million in sales for our clients. We've taken over 200, 000 book calls. Sales has always been my thing. Where it started we go way back, to me it started way back in grade one when they had written me off.

I am that typical, you know, that entrepreneur. They written me off. I was in the bottom half of the class, I made the top half perfect. They had me labeled at ADD, ADHD, learning disabilities, reading, writing, math, and communication. I always said, well, what was left? Phys Ed? So I always felt from that moment, I was in this mode of selling.

I was in this mode of showing people they were wrong. And then as I grew my career, I [00:04:00] got into sales and I never left it. And as I've done, you know, extensive sales career, I always knew that there was a teacher in me. There was something in me that I wanted to teach people that whether you know it or not, we are all, everything you want is a sale.

Everything you get is your commission. And that's just the reality.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I love that Kayvon nudge, nudge, wink, wink from zero to 39 million. I mean, what took you so long? It took you forever to get there.

Kayvon Kay: Yeah, we got lucky, you know, 

Jeffrey Feldberg: That's amazing. 

Kayvon Kay: I'll tell you that when I say luck, it's like, it's all about, as you know, it's right timing and we just entered the market with the right message at the right time. All the cards lined up and it just, it blew up. It was not even something we were expecting to blow up as big as it did at that moment in time.

So I've been in a lot of failed businesses. I've been a lot of successful businesses and. I can tell you There is that thing such as timing and a little bit of a luck, but I also believe you create your own luck. We wouldn't have been there ready to go if we didn't have, foresight to see it and the [00:05:00] ability to do it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: right there with you. One of my very early mentors, he said, Jeffrey, given the choice, I want to be both lucky and smart. But if I had to pick one, I'd rather be lucky and I hear you on the luck side. We'll take it when we can get it. But to the same point, hey, the harder we work, the more luck we magically

Kayvon Kay: Yeah. Well, you create it. The harder you work and the more you I think you stay adaptable. And creative, the more you'll see the luck be on your side.

Jeffrey Feldberg: exactly. Okay, well, let me ask you this because I'm curious. I know for myself, maybe it's the same for you or not. We'll hear in just a moment. When you look back at your sales journey, what would have been one of the lowest moments in your sales journey? That was such a powerful lesson that it helped get you where you are today.

Anything come to mind?

Kayvon Kay: Oh, yes! Whoo! I would say there was a moment in my journey where, again, I came from, I didn't come from a lot. My parents made below minimum wage. Just, I always say, just Without getting into the numbers, my parents did the [00:06:00] best they could with the circumstances they had just to put a perspective and to respect them.

And I remember I was like, back in my day, right? It was trying to get that six figure job, right? If you made the six figures you did, you were doing pretty well and as now we know it's not much money these days, but back then, you know, it was some, and I remember I was 30, I'll never forget it.

I was 30 years old. The company had just moved me out to Vancouver and it was in that moment, it was a Sunday night and I was looking at the beautiful sunset over the ocean. I put my hands out on the balcony and I was in downtown Vancouver. I was in the best shape of my life. I had the finances at that time, had fallen for this girl I just met. I mean, life was as perfect as it possibly could be. And I put my hands out to the world and I kind of, you know, the universe of God. And I just said, I finally made it like, thank you. I finally made it. That was a Sunday night on the Monday.

I get a call at 8 a. m. my time from my manager saying that the company is [00:07:00] going through a transition and the commissions are changing and that they're basically not going to have a job in a year. Later that day, my landlord had called me and told me that I have to move out. Two days later, I'm not, I can't make this up.

mom had called me to tell me my dad he was going through another round of cancer chemo and and radiation and then a couple of days later, I found out my sister's husband just left her with my two nieces and then all of that beating a lot. That's a lot of beating in one week, especially when you kind of just, you almost surrendered and said, thank you.

And the moment I did that, everything just came tumbling down. And the worst of the worst was the girl that I thought I was in love with. Told me she couldn't look at me the same way all in the same week. I'll never forget that. That was the moment I was broken. I mean, you're talking about being like empty, broken, nothing.

I actually fell to the ground physically, mentally, spiritually. And I was laid on the ground for days waiting. And hoping [00:08:00] somebody was going to come through the door to help me and I realized nobody was coming through that door. The only person that was going to save me was me and that I had to get my feet back up on the ground and it was an opportunity to reinvent myself.

And that's actually when I went into the world of entrepreneurship and that was a whole different story. But yeah, that was I'll never forget one of those breaking moments in my life. It was powerful. It was a moment when I realized that. I hate to say it. Nobody gives a about you.

And if you want to do something of significance in your life, you got to do it. Nobody's going to come save you. Nobody's going to do it for you. You as an individual, as a business owner, you are the leader, you are the master, you're the one that has to get up and even on the worst days, you're the one that has to show up and do the work.

Because if you don't do it, someone else is, and they're going to take what's yours. And that's what I've realized. Whether you show up or not, someone else is, and they're taking your silver platter.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Okay. So I'm hearing, Hey, you got to show up, have that [00:09:00] determination. Put your best foot forward. And so when you resilience, yeah, you know what? One of my favorite sayings here at Deep Wealth, we say that resilience always trumps resources. So said another way, take a company that has all of the gazillion dollars in the world.

One that doesn't, it's the resilient company that will outmaneuver, outshine, outperform. The company that can write the check because they can is when you don't, when you can't, you've really got to think, okay, how are we going to do this? Let's make the most of our time, the most of our resources. I'm right there with you.

And so, Kevin, I'm wondering, and we're going to get into your secret sauce and what you're doing, but before we get there from a very high level. The question I'm about to ask, you would be completely right to say, Geoffrey, it is so specific to the company and where they're at and what they're doing.

You're asking me a very general question, but I'm going to ask it anyways. Generally speaking, is it the good old Pareto's law, the 80 20 principle that 80 percent of the challenges most companies are having are coming from 20 percent of the same issues? Is it? [00:10:00] One, two, three issues. What's going on there?

What are you

Kayvon Kay: I mean the A20 for sure it works in everything. So when I talk about the companies that we go into, it really comes down to the right message, the right offer and the right message.

That's it. If you have those two things, you're laughing. If you don't, everything becomes a struggle. And a lot of business owners and businesses I see, even though they get attached to what they think is right. They get attached to the message that they want. Okay. But it doesn't matter. If the market doesn't want it, if the market doesn't see it, if the market isn't playing with it, it doesn't matter how good you think it is.

 and then what happens is I see these companies put in, like you said, the resources, they put in those 80%, they try to find the people, the time, the money, they spend all this money on getting external resources and vendors and whatever it might be, experts to come in. And they're wasting all the time and money when they should be focusing on the two basic things.

Does the message resonate with the offer? If the answer, [00:11:00] no, stop immediately. Just stop. Like you're wasting money. You're not going to fix it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: okay. When you wouldn't be surprised with what I'm going to share. A lot of entrepreneurs are on this podcast. Very fortunate. I've had valuators. These are the ones that think of your favorite logo, your favorite brand name out there. They value it to those companies and they say it in different words, but they effectively say the same thing.

When they go into value a company, 80 percent of the company's value, it's not from the spreadsheets. It's not from the financial reports. It's from the narrative. What's the story of the company? What's the narrative? They start with that and then they go elsewhere with the financials reports, everything else.

And I'm effectively hearing you the same thing. Hey, Jeffrey, you can have the best mouse trap in the world, but if you don't have the right story, you don't have the right narrative with that. You're done before it's begun. So where do most entrepreneurs get it wrong? Kayvon when they're coming up with how they're presenting their company, their service, their product to the world, where are they going off track?

Kayvon Kay: Well, in the beginning, they [00:12:00] haven't done enough testing to see if the message is resonated with the audience. A lot of entrepreneurs were like me. We get stubborn. have egos, our egos are bigger sometimes than they need to be. And we want to prove everybody wrong or we want to prove people right.

But we actually, you know, how many dead bodies do we walk over before we realize. Man, we were wrong. For me, I tell people, I see so many business owners, they build a product. They build a coaching program. They build a platform. they spend so much money building on the inside.

And I'm the opposite. tell them you sell it before you build it. Because if you can't sell it, if you can't market it, there's no point in building it. And I can tell you from my experience, I have more programs built right now in the back of my treasure chest than you've ever seen. Beautiful programs.

I mean, programs that can change people's lives. And guess what? No one's ever got to see it because we couldn't sell it. We couldn't get the right messaging for people to come into it. So we spend so much time [00:13:00] building instead of doing the one thing, which is selling and marketing. And if you can't market it, you can't sell it.

Don't even attempt to build it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I love that Kayvon offline. You and I were talking about my e learning company, Ember net. And when we were speaking to a prospective university, we would say from all the programs that we test, we have about a. 5, 10 percent failure rate, but from every program that we launch, we have a hundred percent success rate.

And they'd say, that's impossible. No one has a hundred percent success rate. But to your point, before we ever built a course or took a program fully into the marketplace, we would test it. Is there a market for this? How's our messaging? What that's looking and what's going to be our ad spend, our costs and all those other things.

And once we got that feedback, once we knew, okay, yeah, this is a go. Let's do it. Never looked back. And to your point, how many times do we see these companies spend a gazillion dollars and too much time before they even go to market? And it's a phenomenal flop. 

Kayvon Kay: It's easy to [00:14:00] hide, right? So I see a lot of entrepreneurs, they get excited about the idea of it being successful, but when you actually put them into the fire, they're scared, they won't admit it, but they are either consciously or subconsciously scared. So it's easy to hide behind a product that you believe is so beautiful, and it's, we gotta wait, can't go to market yet, gotta make sure it's perfect, gotta make sure it's perfect, and that's just stall tactics.

That's just indirect or direct reasons for you of not actually being able to put yourself out there because putting yourself out there is scary. Oh, but what happens if people buy? Great! You can give them what they want. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. Go figure. Mm

Kayvon Kay: it's interesting when we and why I learned this is back when we did zero to 38 million, we sold, it was, a seven week course.

You didn't even have week one done. We actually sold like 20, 30 people. And then we were like, no, we're not ready to, we like, we wanted 50. So I had to individually call all 20 people and just say, Hey, just so you know, we're going to be a week behind, but don't worry, [00:15:00] here's a free little gift from now till then to hold you off.

You want us to wait cause we're really putting this thing together for you. That none of them asked for their money back. None of them were upset. They were all excited and they gave us another extra week to get in. Not 50 people. We actually had a 250 people in our first round and then I remember my partner and I called each other We're going live on a Thursday night Wednesday morning, he's so I'm like you ready.

He's I'm like, no you he's nope, what are we doing? I'm like, well, let's put it together and we spent that entire day Putting together what week one was gonna be and then the next week what week two was and then by time we were done week eight We redid it. We redid it, and we did it five, six times, and then by time it was, we had it perfect.

We tested it with people. By the end of it, we were ready to go to scale. We were ready to actually automate it. And guess what? We never spent one minute of building anything until we had the money coming in. We knew it was sold. And I've made that [00:16:00] mistake several times even after that. And when I look back, I go, why?

it was a fear. It was just a fear of, what would people think if the product's not there? What if it's not good enough? I don't want people to buy and then they want to refill all this stuff that just doesn't actually serve you as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, nothing. And it goes back to you want to know if a product works, you want to know if the marketing works, you want to know if the offer works, go out and sell it.

Because if you can't sell it, it's not going to work.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Great advice. And my goodness, if more companies follow that, the time, the effort, the money that they would save. So, Kayvon, let's get down to some brass tacks or get into some tactics, some strategies. A company approaches you, okay, Kayvon, heard about you, saw what you've done, really what's going on there.

Please come help us. We're having some challenges. Either we're not selling or we've stopped selling, or we can't get to the next level. Walk us through a little bit of your secret sauce. What's your process

Kayvon Kay: Yeah first and foremost, we would come in and we do we do an audit, right? So the team and I would [00:17:00] come in, my systems operations, our managers, we come in, we just do an audit of what's happening in the company right now to see what's working, what's not. And then from there, we make the decision.

Do we want to continue working with them or do we just give them, the findings of the audit and then say, Hey, here are a couple of levers you can pull to fix the situation. Usually, if we're into an audit, it's because we see already there's a potential to work in the back end.

And that's when they basically outsource and come to us and we will build them. In some cases, companies are coming to us to build them. Full on sales department. Other cases, people are coming to bring me into actually build upon. So they may already have two, three salespeople, but they don't have a manager.

They don't have systems in place. They don't have a CRM place. They don't have the data, the reporting, the tracking, all of that in place. We'll come in, we'll inject all of our, materials, everything we've done over the last, again, like six years. recruiting. We have an eight step profile recruiting system where I've never seen this. This was built by between me and one [00:18:00] and my partner who's genius and operations by the end of our hiring process we will know within 98. 7 percent if the salesperson will be successful or not. We don't even speak to salespeople unless they've gone through two assessments.

One is a 62 point characteristic sales characteristic assessment. Meaning we'll know exactly if they're salespeople or not right out of the gate.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Love that. So it's a near 100%. I'm just running up a little bit here. 97, 98 percent success rate. Absolutely love that. And DeepAlpNation, are you listening to this? Kayvon has already done the trials, the experimentation, the up, the down. This is a done for you sales system. Where you now apply it very specifically his best practices to your specific company and your company culture and came on speaking of culture in my experience.

Culture is so important. It's in our nine step roadmap, step two X factors. Money can buy a lot of things. Your competition can hire away your people. They can copy your marketing, copy [00:19:00] everything that you're doing, but it cannot buy culture from your vantage point. How does culture fit into being an effective selling machine, a selling company?

Kayvon Kay: culture is everything. I mean, the reality. And here's the, here's the funny thing. I meet some owners and they're like, ah, I don't really have a culture. And it's yeah, you do if you don't have a culture that is, your culture is, there is no culture. And that is a culture in itself.

That means that the people are not in the same mission. They're not in the same vision, they're not rowing on the same boat for the same reasons. The culture we've created again, back then was, cult like for sure, but it works culture is everything. I mean, we know that culture is everything.

It's hard. It's a hard thing as a business owner. I believe it's one of the hardest as a business owners to implement and create, mandatory. It's needed every single employee, every single C level, every single manager. No matter what, like what did anyone on that payroll must be in alignment with the culture of the business.

And if there isn't a culture of the business, you got to figure out what that culture is. [00:20:00] We are the sales connection. Our culture was driven around because we were all like kind of either semi pro or professional athletes. Our culture is driven around the winner's DNA. And my culture is we're in the business of helping winners win more.

That's it. So what we don't, we're not helping businesses that are startups. That haven't figured out we help businesses that are already doing six figures And they want to get to 7, 7 want to get to 8, 8 want to get to 9. That would, that's our culture. If you're coming here, we are not going to be sugarcoating everything.

This is where we are going to win.

Jeffrey Feldberg: It's okay, man. Let me ask you this. I know if we spoke to most, not even entrepreneurs, most people, when you ask them about sales, they're talking about, yeah, that sleazy, that pushy used car salesperson. And I know with you, your system is actually the opposite. It's how to sell without being pushy, without being manipulative.

So, what's the psychology behind what you, from the effortless close, 

Kayvon Kay: The effortless clothes, the psychology is number one, don't act like a typical [00:21:00] sound look or act like a typical salesperson. In my sales train, my sales philosophy, I tell people you got to act like a doctor, you got to act like you come in with authority. And it's not with high energy. It's not with low energy.

It's not being rude. It's just, it's coming in with respected energy that's neutral in the beginning. And then the idea is, is people are coming to you in sales. There's always a problem. You got to figure out what that problem is. Just like a doctor does. They come in and they diagnose and they try to ask questions and they keep asking questions.

A lot of salespeople. They ask questions to respond,

Great salespeople ask questions to hear, to understand. So, for me, I talk about the three levels of pain and then we go to the deepest level, which is that personal pain. So, whether we're talking to business owners or B2C, whatever it might be, there is a level of pain a prospect's in.

We have to understand the pain. It's not trying to go do the pain because we want to make a sale, no. Go to the [00:22:00] pain so we can fully understand where they are in their lives, where they are in their business, wherever they are their journey, so we can fully understand what's happening. From there, we take them to what I call the promised land.

Well, what if we have the solution? What if we can fix this problem? What does it look like then? So there's a little bit of a dance there. And the way that we do that is by questions. I can't tell you how to feel. I can't lead you there. I got to ask you the questions to lead yourself there because if I have to pull you, that's traditional sales.

That's me pushing you and selling you something you don't want. I have to make sure that you want this, that you want to claim it. So I hold space. I tell my salespeople, you hold space for them. You guide them there by asking them the question. So by the end of the call, you've eliminated all the resistance.

You eliminated all the objections. And at the end of the call, you shouldn't even have to ask for the sale. They're begging you for a sale. They're salivating for the solution [00:23:00] because you've done your job well.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Kevan, to get to that point where the prospect, believe it or not, and I know some of the listeners in deep foundation say, no way they're going to be begging for the solution for me to give that to them. To get there though, and I know every situation is going to be different and what are you selling?

Is it high end? Is it on the lower end? What's the ticket price? All those things. But generally speaking, how many sales touches and how long would it take to have the prospect say, Okay, you know what, Kavan, love what I'm hearing. Let's go. And so

Kayvon Kay: my philosophy and where we stay and we focus our energy is usually in shorter sales cycles. So the type of selling that I'm talking about here, and thank you for saying that, is one, two, three call closes max. I don't believe, I'm not a big fan of long sales cycles because if they involve More decision makers there's just too many variables.

I, I've seen too many people work on deals that could take up to eight, nine months. And then one guy, one bad day has a, it comes into [00:24:00] work in a bad day and kiboshes the entire project. And to me, that's just, I don't not having that kind of control. So for me, I do more 30 day set. If it takes more than 30 day sales cycles, not interested.

I like the one call, two call, close sales cycles. So those touch points, as you're talking about ten, ten max touch points between the very first time to the end to getting the deal done. like I said, 18, 19, 20 it was one call closes. We were talking about 10, 20, 30K deals.

I still have sales reps for one of my clients that closes 50K deals, one call close. But that's because again, I want to be very clear. The marketing's done good job. So let's talk about that because this is a huge one that causes me a lot of problems with a lot of businesses is this. So I'll say it this way.

If my sales guys or your sales guys have to do marketing over the phone, marketing didn't do the job. If marketing is having struggles and it's Hard and they're going through a lot of pain [00:25:00] trying to market the product the product owner, the developer, whatever it is, didn't do their job.

Jeffrey Feldberg: what does that mean? I hear you, Kavan. I hear what you're saying. Sometimes though, we can use the same words that has different meanings. When you say that marketing is not doing its job. And I often hear that from salespeople. What, does that mean in your

Kayvon Kay: I'm speaking to a prospect and they don't know why they're there, why they're on this book call and they don't fully understand what it is we're doing or what it is we offer, that's a marketing problem. Because marketing should do that heavy lifting nowadays with, as email automation, Facebook ads, I mean funnels, there's videos, there's so many ways to be able to get a prospect to go through the journey, the marketing journey.

So by time they decide to actually book the call, they're very aware of what they're booking it for. They know that this is the right product for them. They know that this is a solution for them. So we talk about the awareness levels, you know, unaware all the way to. Product aware to aware of your product.

Eugene Warts, are [00:26:00] you familiar with the

Jeffrey Feldberg: Tell for default nation who may not have heard. Why don't you share that with them, bring them up to speed.

Kayvon Kay: Well, there's the unaware, right? He talks about the level of awareness of where someone is. So they're all the way to the lowest level is someone who's unaware of the problem they have. So they don't even know they have a problem. That's like a fool, there's a problem out there. Then there's problem aware.

Then there's solution aware, meaning I know I have a problem. I know there's a solution out there. So now I'm looking for the different solutions. And then there's the highest level of awareness, which is, I have a problem identified. I have a problem identified that there's a solution. And now I'm looking at you.

As you're the solution to my problem that when salespeople are speaking to those types of people, what's great about that is you're going to get way more sales and you don't have to rely on 10 salespeople. I mean, the best of the best people like 8 out of 10, 10 salespeople like so mean [00:27:00] not the greatest salespeople will still sell like machines because the markings done the heavy lifting.

Versus if you're taking someone who is problem aware, but not even solution aware or not even aware of their problem and you're putting them out of salesperson's in a salesperson's lab, that is a lot of work and you're going to need a very experienced top level salesperson to handle those calls.

Does that make sense?

Jeffrey Feldberg: it makes perfect sense. Let me get at a myth that's out there. And you may say, Jeffrey, actually, that isn't a myth. That's the case. Well, yeah, Jeffrey, that is a myth. Here's what I see a lot out there. The myth is I see it is there's this perception. The more salespeople I have, the better off I'm going to be.

Kayvon Kay: Oh myth, cause sales, people can't solve a marketing problem. And just like this, marketing people can't fix a salesperson problem. It makes me so frustrated when people in marketing goes against sales goes against marketing.

I hate it. They should [00:28:00] be working together. They should never be against each other. They should be in the same room. The culture I create is there in the same room. They work with each other. Because marketing supports sales supports the entire ecosystem. The reality is, if salespeople can't get the job done, there is no marketing team.

Can't afford the marketing team. But salespeople don't need to work as hard as they do sometimes if the marketing is done properly. So going to your question is why is that a myth is because if there's a marketing problem, meaning messaging, meaning the offer doesn't work, people don't want the offer.

They don't know what the offer is. It's not compelling. No matter how good a salesperson is, they can't sell it. They just can't sell it. You're asking a salesperson to do the unstoppable it's not right. So then saying, in that case, saying more salespeople will fix my solution.

No, you just have more headache. You'll be more frustrated and you'll be wondering why. Okay, well, we need better salespeople. Better salespeople is not going to [00:29:00] fix a product problem.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Okay.

Kayvon Kay: Better salespeople won't fix a marketing problem. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: That. Yes.

Kayvon Kay: better salespeople will fix a sales process problem. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: Let's talk about that.

Kayvon Kay: Now imagine this.

You have products right, offers right. Getting massive applications or massive leads. Getting all these leads coming in. But then you don't have salespeople on the other end to handle those leads. Leads are takes 24, 48 hours, 7 days. I have a client right now, they got a salesperson's problem.

They're getting 10 Thousand leads a day. I want you to understand that they're getting 10,000 new buyer leads a day.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Amazing.

Kayvon Kay: And I'm not lying when I'm saying amazing is not like my brain can't even comprehend it. I understand it, but it's wow. That is a salesperson problem now, how can you build fast enough to even handle those leads versus I have a client, they're like, we need more [00:30:00] salespeople.

I can't get you salespeople because you're bringing me 20 leads. You're bringing me 20 leads a day. And only 2 of the 20 are qualified, meaning they actually have the money, they actually have the problem, and they actually want the solution we offer. So, how do I scale a team? How do I bring in 10 guys when there's only 2 leads?

2 leads for 10 guys. salesperson problem. That's a marketing problem. On the other hand, 10, 000 buyer leads coming in, you don't got a marketing problem now. We got a salesperson's problem. We got it. We can't even get you enough salespeople to fill those amount of leads.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So let's talk about that. Let's make a big assumption and it's a huge assumption, but let's make the assumption marketing is hitting it out of the park. You cannot get a better marketing team. This is the dream team on the marketing side. So now it's squarely on the sales side. And I know every company is going to be different.

It depends on, again, what we're selling the industry, high ticket, low ticket, something in [00:31:00] between, but to your point came on, and I've seen this myself. Sales teams can often be understaffed or overstaffed. What's that Goldilocks scenario. How do we know, okay, I have just the right number of salespeople because too many we're adding to the expenses.

We're adding to the complication to having management leadership and too few. We all know what that's like. So. So where's it at with that?

Kayvon Kay: kind of said it it's understanding the data. It's understanding there is a middle ground where. Again, too many salespeople cost the company money, having salespeople sitting there, especially if they're salaried. Now, again, I work in a pure commission based environment, so all my sales guys are all commission based.

So the cost of having a salesperson there is the cost of usually just the systems, you know, a couple hundred bucks a month. But, again, if you have 10, 20 salespeople sitting there, and you're not getting them leads, then you're wasting money. You're wasting their time.

They're going to leave anyways, especially if they're commission based, right? So there is no exact art because every business is [00:32:00] different. It's just understanding again You have to understand all your levers in the business and like in the sales process and know when it's the right time So for me we have a client.

Let's just say right now. They have a 10, 000 offer a 21, 000 offer And they want to get to a million dollars a month right now. Based off the math, based off all the stuff that we looked at, they only need five, six sales reps, anything more would be it's okay. But if he had five, six full time sales reps, what will happen is you'll have consistency.

And, each of those sales people will be making the money they need to be making to stay. Because if you have too many sales reps, and not enough for them to eat, you're also going to have a lot of reps that are not making money, and then that causes problems. is no exact formula, it's just knowing the metrics of the business and understanding what's sustainable.

So, too many sales people, not good. Not enough, not great. So, we have one of the metrics we look at is how long it takes before someone can [00:33:00] book a call with my guys. Because everything we do is online, it's all about booking calls, okay? So, we know that if that average to booking date is over 1. 5, meaning it takes 1.

5 days for someone to get into the calendar, we're not good. Because if it's more than 1. 5, the chances of the no show Go through the roof. So if that starts happening consistently, that means marketing is doing their job. That means marketing is consistently bringing in leads that we need to speak to. We then bring in a salesperson and we play with that number.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So you're coming in, you're doing some needs analysis, you're seeing what's there, you're vetting that against your proven system, finding the gaps and effectively filling the gaps. And again, I know you'd be right to say, Jeffrey, every company is different. That said, back of the envelope, generally speaking.

For a company that perhaps isn't doing so great. They've had better days that are behind them. They want to change that. How long does it take Kayvon for you to come in with your system and [00:34:00] really turn things around? What are we looking at?

Kayvon Kay: well, that's a great question. I mean, we've turned businesses and helped business turn around within three months, six months, to a year. If it takes more than a year, that is a marketing offer problem, but we would already identified that in the beginning. Usually if we're coming into the right business, it's cause they've dialed in the marketing and they now want to scale the sales side, like they can't scale the business cause they don't have enough.

For instance, say sales guys coming in, that will take us three months to get the salespeople in to set up the systems, the salespeople, and we start rocking and rolling there.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Okay. Love that. So you got the system, you have the roadmap, you're now really making the adjustments. Let me ask you this, and it's a tough question that you would almost be like asking, well, pick your favorite family member. If you have children, pick your favorite child. That said of all the strategies and tactics that you, your team are helping fellow entrepreneurs with, do you have a favorite one?

So in other words, if someone from the deep off nation, they finished [00:35:00] listening to us, if they could do one thing today, Gabe on coming out of here. That would really move the dial on the sails and do both nation. You can't see Kayvon, but he's Oh, Jeffrey, you had to ask that question. What would that one thing be?

Best guess.

Kayvon Kay: I'll tell you this, if you had to move the dial and you have a sales team in place right now. And I'm just going to assume, say the marketing's all good, right? The offer is good right now, and you're just wondering, how do I move the sales team's dial? I guarantee you, it's not because you need to add another salesperson.

I guarantee you, it's the sales team you currently have needs the sales training. Most importantly, the mindset. Because I will tell you this, it all, I have trained enough sales people, I've been in this game long enough. That it all comes down to the mindset of the salesperson. Their conviction set, their certainty set, their clarity set.

Meaning, do they absolutely [00:36:00] 100 percent believe in the product, believe in the marketing, believe in the outcomes. Are they showing up 100 percent their highest self? If you had a team every single day showing up like that, you don't have a sales problem. I promise you that.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So interesting. Kevin, as you're talking about that, you're taking me to once again, our default nine step roadmap, step five. Winning mindset. And it's amazing, isn't it? Doesn't show up on a balance sheet in a profit and loss statement, but it's everything, it really moves the dial.

Kayvon Kay: We have a team that has Two or three like to just emotional sales guys and there are months where they are 130 percent above target and then there's months where they can't even get to 20 percent above target and nothing changes except the that's going on in their personal lives and it's just been a dance from us on the mindset is how do you get them to stay in the pocket and not go too high and not to go low and you're [00:37:00] going to ask the question, well, how do you do it?

Yeah. Constant training, constant mindset training, constant babysitting. And that's just, you know, great salespeople need babysitting, unfortunately. Especially the mindset. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: Not what we want to hear, but you're speaking from the trenches with that. And so when it comes to the training. I imagine, and you can say Jeffrey on bass, off bass, I can tune a piano today. It's in perfect tune, but every day from that tuning, it gets a little bit out of tune a little bit here, a little bit there.

And next thing you know, wham. So what can I do as the owner of the company? I have a terrific sales

team on a 

training side. 

Kayvon Kay: yeah, if you don't have the right sales manager in place or the sales coach in place, you gotta implement that right away. If you don't have the sales team meeting daily, weekly, you got to implement that right away. You cannot let sales people be on their own.

You really can't. We meet with our sales teams every single day. Every single day, morning huddle, just to [00:38:00] ensure the clarity. Now here's something that we've tested and it works. Whether you find it redundant or not. If you can drop a testimonial or something that like your business has done in a positive way for the clients every day, every morning, they wake up, Oh, you know, Joe from here just sent in a testimonial.

Oh, we just did this for this person that little conviction every day adds up and they believe it. They see it because even if you've been with the business forever, what happens is salespeople, they hear complaints. They hear how the product didn't work from that one customer. And as we know, we tend to focus on the negative and the positive.

So we focus on the one customer that said the service failed me versus forgetting the 99 other ones that we sold that month that are happy and excited and have no issue with it. So constant positive reinforcement of how great the product is a secret sauce to a sales team's mindset.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And it's not just on the sales side, Kevin, I would take that to the entire [00:39:00] company. Yes, we hear from the very loud minority. Hey, you messed up on this. You dropped the ball on that, but we're not hearing from the silent majority. Who's thrilled. We're doing such a great job. It's just human nature. We don't tend to talk about that.

So with the sales team, with our customer service team, with the entire team. Hey, let me share. I was just speaking to one of our clients, Sally, and she was singing our praise. Let me tell you what she was saying. It's such a motivational factor of why we do what we do.

Kayvon Kay: Yeah. It's we call it the success channels in our you know, in our slack groups and call it and the goal is to drop some one success story every day it keeps us motivated and it keeps us all. So you talk about culture, it creates a culture of what we're actually doing.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Exactly. It actually reminds me as we're speaking at Deep Wealth Nation earlier today, I heard from a Deep Wealth graduate who was actually sending on a referral and in the email to the referral, he said, Hey, I went through the Deep Wealth Mastery program. These are his words, not my words, fabulous program.

I only wish I knew about it before I sold my [00:40:00] business. And what does that tell you? It's all there. We can't make this stuff up. It's so good when it comes from the client base. I absolutely hear you on that. So Kevin, let me ask you this. There are so many questions. I know I didn't have a chance to ask because we're going to be going into wrap up mode.

Is there one particular question I didn't ask that you want to highlight? Is there a topic that we haven't covered or even a message you want to get out to Deep Wealth Nation that we haven't yet spoken about?

Kayvon Kay: we touched quite a bit. would just reiterate that if you're having challenges in your business right now it's so easy. I've seen so many people point at the sales team and says a sales person's problem. would question that and really ask yourself and go look up upstream and work down and look at every different department before it comes to the sales team.

Because the sales is at the end of this, really at the end of the process. It starts with product, offer, messaging, marketing, then sales. Look at all of those departments before just saying, Hey, the sales team's not doing their [00:41:00] job. If it ends up being the sales team, don't worry about it.

That's why you would call me. We're going to fix that for you.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I absolutely love that. We're not even in wrap up mode yet. We're about to go there, but what a gem Deep Wealth Nation. Did you hear that again? Even if you have the best sales team or salesperson on the planet. To your point, Kayvon, if we haven't done the fundamentals before we even get to the sales side, Hey, we're going to have some issues there.

Let's get the fundamentals down. Let's get everything in place. And then let our sales person or team work the magic. I absolutely love what you're saying with that. And with that said, actually some terrific advice on the business side, we're going to go to some advice on the personal side. It's our tradition here on the default podcast, where it's both my privilege and honor came on.

I ask every guest the same question. It's a really fun question. I'm going to set this up for you. When you think of the movie Back To The Future, you have that magical DeLorean car that will take you to any point in time, Kayvon is tomorrow morning and you look outside your window. Not only do you see the DeLorean car curbside, the door is open is [00:42:00] waiting for you to hop on in, which you do.

And you're now going to go to. Any point in your life Kayvon as a young child, a teenager, whatever point in time it would be, what would you tell your younger self in terms of life lessons or life wisdom, or, Hey, Kayvon, do this, but don't do that. What would that sound like?

Kayvon Kay: I would say number one, you got to take care of your health, your mental, physical health, 100 percent better than I probably did. And then number two, don't be pinned down or so worried about what other people think and just do make as many mistakes and be curious. When you're younger, because it doesn't matter when you get to our age, as right?

Like you've heard, I'm sure you heard in your 20s, you care about what everybody thinks. And in your 40s, you stop caring what other people think. And then in your 60s, you realize no one other gave a ever really about you at all. And my advice would be , [00:43:00] I know me, I would have done a lot of other things, not worrying about the validation of other people.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I'd love that. So take care of your health first. Once you've done that, stop worrying about what other people say or think and just do it.

Kayvon Kay: Just do

Jeffrey Feldberg: Just do, just 

do

And Kayvon, let me ask you this, from a health side, is there one particular health recommendation that's really worked well for you that you'd like to share with the Deep Wealth Nation?

Kayvon Kay: I'll tell you what hasn't worked really well for me was the sitting at the desk

They say sitting is a new smoking and I'm convinced on that. So for me is moving is you got to move so much throughout the day, especially if you're working from home or you're stuck at a desk, kill you.

It will destroy your body. So, for me, that's what I've been working on now is, every hour I try to get up move, stretch, move the body because when you get older it just, I don't care what anybody says, your body just does not work as it once did is when you're in your twenties.

I was an athlete all my life and now I'm feeling the pains [00:44:00] of not stretching and I'm not moving for the last 10 years it's been a big uphill battle, but we're working on it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely right. and I have to share with you, Kayvon, for me, I have the first five minutes of every hour put aside that I can get up, walk around and some people, they don't see it's five minutes after the arrow. Jeffrey's late. I actually know I'm taking care of my health. I'm walking around just recharging so I can give my best with whomever I'm meeting with and you're right.

The sitting is the new smoking and it's just crazy and moving around and that movement so important. And before we go into the official wrap up, Kayvon, Some in the default nation, they have a question. They want to speak with you and the team. They want to bring you on board to help them catapult their sales and profits.

Where would be the best place online to find you?

Kayvon Kay: yeah, you can come to our website. It's called the sales connection dot com. thesalesconnection. com and you can look at all our services and then we have forums to fill out and one of us will reach out to you and help you out.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And folks go take a look at that default nation. It's all there in the [00:45:00] show notes. It's a point and click and you'll see right on the website. I'm looking at it right now. It's nearly a third of a billion dollars in sales at 10 X ROI, over 20, 000 sales reps trained. I mean, those numbers say it all. It doesn't get any better.

And with that said Kayvon, it's official. This is a wrap. Congratulations. And as we love to say here at deep wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. Thank you so much.

Kayvon Kay: Thank you so much for having me, I appreciate it. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: So there you have it, Deep Wealth Nation. What did you think? 

So with all that said and as we wrap it up, I have another question for you.

Actually, it's more of a personal favor. 

Did you find this episode helpful? 

Have you found other episodes of the Deep Wealth Podcast empowering and a game changer for your journey? 

And if you said yes, and I really hope you did, I have a small but really meaningful way that you can actually help us out and keep these episodes coming to you.

Are you ready for it? 

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So all that said. Thank you so much for listening. And remember your wealth isn't just about the money in the bank. It's about the depth of your journey and the impact that you're creating. So let's continue this journey together. And from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for listening to this episode.

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Thank you so much. 

God bless.