391 Caleb Roche

Jeffrey Feldberg: [00:00:00] Born and raised in Enid, Oklahoma, Caleb Roche brings a personalized approach to each and every client of his. With a degree from the University of Central Oklahoma in Marketing and an MBA from West Texas A& M University, he finds innovative ways to reach new target customers and expand your business no matter where you start.

Combining strategy with implementation, he focuses on building long term customers through data driven decision making. With experience working with both small and large companies, he has the experience to help businesses create strategic marketing plans that focus specifically on each business's strengths, not just a one size fits all template based strategy.

And before we start this episode, a quick word from our sponsor, Deep Wealth and the 90 Day Deep Wealth Mastery Program. Here's Jane, a graduate who says, and I quote, the Deep Wealth Mastery Program prevented me from making what would have been one of the biggest mistakes of my career. I almost signed on the dotted line with an unsolicited offer that I now realized would have shortchanged my hard work and [00:01:00] my future had I accepted that offer. Deep Wealth Mastery has tilted the playing field to my advantage.

Or how about Lyn? Wow, he gets right to the point, and I quote, Deep Wealth Mastery is one of the best investments ever made because you'll get an ROI of a hundred times that. Anyone who doesn't go through this will lose millions. 

And as you're listening to these testimonials, are you wondering if you have the time? Are you even thinking that you've got this covered, you have the advisors or people in your network? Well, I got to tell you, these myths, they're often behind the 90 percent failure rate for liquidity events. Think about it. You have one chance to get it right for your financial freedom. You really want to make it count.

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So what do you think?

As I hear that, that's exactly what gets me out of bed every day. That's my mission. That's the [00:02:00] team's mission here at Deep Wealth to literally change the social fabric of society. One business owner at a time, one liquidity event at a time, and my Deep Wealth Nation, what I want you to know, the Deep Wealth Mastery Program, it isn't theory.

It's from the trenches. It's the only one based on a nine figure deal. And that deal, that was my deal. You know my story. I said no to a seven figure offer. I created the system that later on, myself and my business partners, we said yes to a different buyer, a different offer, a nine figure deal. That's what we now call the Deep Wealth Mastery Program or the Scale For Ultimate Sales system.

It's built by business owners, for business owners, so if you're interested in growing your profits for preparing for a future liquidity event, and that may be two years away, it could be 22 years away, whatever the time may be, you want to do this now, and you want to optimize your post exit life, Deep Wealth Mastery is for you.

To get started, email success at deepwealth. com. Again, that's success. S U [00:03:00] C C E S S at DeepWealth. com. You'll receive all the information about the Deep Wealth Mastery Program or better yet, why not hop on a complimentary strategy call.

We'll go through exactly where your business is today and what's standing between you and your financial independence and your dreams. So that's where you want to be. You want to be with other successful business owners, entrepreneurs, and founders, just like you they're looking to grow their businesses, create markets.

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Welcome [00:04:00] to the Deep Wealth Podcast. Deep Wealth Nation. We have not only another entrepreneur in the house, but an entrepreneur who may have the answer to the marketing and sales question that you've been asking maybe for a week, maybe for a year, maybe for decades, who knows? It's all here, but I'm going to put a plug in it right there.

Caleb, welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast. An absolute pleasure to have you with us. And I'm really curious, Caleb, there's always a story behind the story. What's your story? What got you from where you were to where you are today?

Caleb Roche: Hey, Jeffrey, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. This is a podcast I've been looking forward to be on. You have quite the story and unfortunately, mine doesn't match yours as cool yet. I haven't got my nine figure offer yet. So maybe one day, maybe tomorrow,

Jeffrey Feldberg: get you there, eh?

Caleb Roche: offer.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Get you in the Deep Wealth Mastery, we'll get you there, you'll talk about it

Caleb Roche: That's great. I have a three figure offer in my inbox right now. So I might take that. Just kidding. you know, We have a, yeah, I just took it actually, I sold my company. my story is quite unique. So, I am currently 25 years old. I run a marketing consulting firm that I've had for about five years officially.

So I grew [00:05:00] up homeschooled. I was the nerdy kid. Everyone thought I was really weird. All that. And I really am grateful that my parents did it because it allowed for me to be a little bit more propelled in my educational career. So I actually graduated with my bachelor's degree and my master's degree by the age of 21.

So I was pretty motivated to get things done. I studied abroad, did all the fun stuff, so really lived quite the experience. Now, on the personal side, I also did not like to wait around as well. So me and my wife actually got married before we could legally drink at 21. So we got married at like 1920, had our first baby before we could legally drink in the US.

And then we actually have two kids now, one, he's almost five and the other is almost two. So I don't like to mess around when it comes to life, business or school. Now, how that translates into my actual career. when I graduated college, during college, I was working for a company. And I was basically managing operations.

And I thought I was like the coolest dude around. I had a salary. I was 19. We could buy a house. [00:06:00] And what happened was I got a little too big for my britches and got let go from that position about four months before my degree. Now, if you look at my story, I have a house. We have a mortgage. I'm married.

We're young, still in school, thinking we're cool. And now I don't have a job. And now it's really hard for me without a degree to go make a salary job at the position that I was making. So, we basically scrambled by and I started this, what I would consider a marketing consulting firm. What that was me building like two page websites that looked absolutely terrible, thinking I knew a lot about marketing.

And it, Ended up paying the bills, but I ended up getting a full time role at a company called Inspire Brands. They're the second largest QSR brand. They own Sonic, Jimmy John's, Buffalo Wild Wings, Dunkin Donuts, and a couple others. So I worked in Consumer Insights for about three years with them, supporting the brands, working with the CMO and the brand team to essentially figure out What products are going to resonate with the customer?

Now, as much as that role was incredible, while I [00:07:00] started working there, I realized that I really did not enjoy working for someone else. It's cliche. I know the typical entrepreneur, I'm a terrible employee. I hate reporting to someone, whatever you want to call it. But I really found out that while I love situation I was in and had a great situation.

I really was not fulfilled. And it was really difficult like traveling a lot with family. So during COVID, I had the prime opportunity that I had been basically side hustling on the side and started making more the traditional story, right? Started making more from my side hustle than my full time job.

So, ended up going to my wife and saying, I know I'm probably crazy. This is going to sound terrible, but I really want to quit my full time job and start this thing. So she ended up saying, do it. I'm full of support with you, and here we are a couple years later. So, long winded story to say, I've thought I was really cool for quite some time and realized that I'm getting less cool as I go and less successful.

So, we've had a really great stint so far. We serve clients ranging everything from a local Oklahoma boutique all the way up to international companies. We [00:08:00] support companies across the globe. About 25 different cities. We're both in Canada and the U. S. and we're actually supporting some European companies now.

So we look pretty small from the outside, but we're pretty large from the inside.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Caleb, wow. What a story. And you have your foot on the accelerator. You are not waiting, my goodness, from school to marriage. I absolutely love that. It's part of your journey. It really speaks a lot of who you are. And I know when you went out there on your own, I just love that entrepreneurial spirit and As you're talking about your story, I could exactly relate.

Just take out Caleb, put in the word Jeffrey. It's really one and the same. I had one job, full disclosure, I had one job. It was an internship during my MBA program. They should have fired me on day one. I mean, I was there and I was the worst employee and anyways, I better stop it there because it could go in the wrong direction, but I absolutely hear you on that.

So you started Club Creative and. You're really out there doing something a little bit different. And it sounds like you took your passion and you said, Hey, [00:09:00] from my passion, you can tell me if I'm on base or off base, Caleb, my passion is really good at solving the marketing problem. And for a lot of businesses out there, that's exactly the problem.

It's a painful problem. It's a costly problem. So as entrepreneurs, usually the glass is half full, but let's put the half full aside, it's half empty. Where as entrepreneurs. From your standpoint, Khalid, where are we just missing the boat? Where are we getting it wrong when it comes to, I'm not going to use the word marketing for the sake of marketing.

When I say marketing, it's a means to an end. And I'm going to go out there. I'm going to market to get sales, not to build my community of however many followers, not to build my email list. It's to actually drive sales. So what's going wrong? Where are we missing the boat here?

Caleb Roche: So there's a lot of things wrong with marketing, as we know. As small business owners, as entrepreneurs, I think everyone can agree that they, Marketing is a side of the business where they just don't want to touch. They don't want to think. They don't want to hire someone. It's so complicated. It's so scary.

Now we've actually figured out kind of the reason why I started my company and the [00:10:00] mission, what we're trying to solve is a lot of business owners treat their marketing like gambling, quite honestly. And so, it's one of those things that you look at it and you go, I'm going to put all of my money on black.

And I really hope that black hits. And while the risk is there, they're not taking into consideration that the risk is actually there. hits red and they go, Oh my gosh, I lost. This is so terrible. I don't have any money now. I don't do this, whatever. It failed. Now, the biggest key focus that I really encourage business owners to look at is if you were, let me ask you this, Jeffrey, if you went to your investment advisor and you said, Hey, I want to take 50 bucks and I want to turn this into a hundred dollars tomorrow.

Can you do that for me? What do you think your investment advisor would say to you? Yeah.

Jeffrey Feldberg: it's the right one. If he says, yes, I got to run as

Caleb Roche: So my caveat on this question is if you say, if your investment advisor says, yes, we should probably have a conversation with an investment advisor that can probably provide better input. But the thing I always say to people is, yes, it's absolutely ridiculous.

The fact that you would go to your investment advisor, maybe even in a [00:11:00] month, know, 50 extra return might seem pretty high for most people. You know, You might hope to get that within a year. So my question to business owners is, if that is a defined market, it's ebbs and flows, you can't really define it, how do you expect someone to come into your business in one day and basically double your revenue from marketing?

Because there's a lot of promises out there that marketing companies come in, they say, hey, we can double your income, you can scale your revenue, and they don't really understand the business model. Maybe it's a really easy business model to scale, and maybe not. For instance, we have a plumbing company that's a lot easier to scale because it's B2C, the consumer has an immediate need, their water heater goes out, they know who to call.

We know that through Google advertising or through search engine optimization, things like that, media buying, we know that we can most likely reach those individuals with a need. Now, if we are a. B2B company that's targeting Fortune 500 companies, we can't just turn on that switch and have that reliable, we have to actually search for those customers.

So the one thing, all that being said, is we try to pin marketing in this one size fits all [00:12:00] approach, and it really isn't. There's so much complexity to each marketing strategy for each business that we have to take into account that before you execute any sort of strategy behind that.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely. And it's interesting as you're talking about that, because you're right. When we say marketing, it means so many things. Now you may agree to disagree with the common example that I use, Goodyear, the Goodyear blimp. If you're a sporting fan, the Goodyear blimp. If you're not a sporting fan, you probably know the Goodyear blimp as well.

For me, that's branding because can Goodyear really say we've sold more tires because of that? I don't think they can definitively say that. It's always a question mark. So here's the question for you and for a lot of the Deep Wealth Nation. Caleb, can you really differentiate, okay, you have marketing, but then there's different types of marketing.

And I know you can say, well, Jeffrey, it depends on the company. It depends on the industry. Maybe it's social, maybe it's direct email, maybe it's SEO, some kind of AdWords or something else. But that said, in your experience, what would you find the most effective way, not for building a brand? But for getting [00:13:00] sales done.

Caleb Roche: So I view it as like an investment, so we look at it and we say, Hey, when, let's take, for instance, a company that's, targeting consumers with a direct need. We know, traditionally speaking, that Google ads, Facebook ads, media buying, those different forms of channels traditionally can buy or bring in pretty good results, whether they're self managing or they're hiring a company, traditionally speaking.

So. In my mind, I'm looking at the channels that are the most popular for their industry just to get started. Now, if they're actually looking at a strategy behind and looking at what's the best return or what can we do the best way of things, I like to bucket it as, more free advertising versus paid.

And when I say free, it's more of the long term, the search engine optimization the organic social, the organic TikTok, that all of those things that are going to take time to build. And the way that we approach it is we say your best return for the immediate right away is going to be the paid channels, traditionally speaking.

Now don't hold me to that because don't spend 500 on Google ads today and not get a result and think that's [00:14:00] strange. But what I say to that is we say you can basically fuel the fire with paid ads. And while we're doing that, we try to supplement organic traffic, organic strategies, so that it's kind of like an investment strategy.

You don't just put all your money in GameStop. You're putting your money maybe in a little bit of GameStop and maybe in a, ETF or mutual fund that knows that there's some sort of growth. So you can kind of leverage the risks together. So don't know if that makes sense. Don't know if that, if you agree with that, but we like to take an approach of not just put money at it and throw money at it.

We say, where are you throwing money right now? What can we be doing in the long term to basically build you to where in the long term, let's say in a year, you have both an organic and a paid strategy that if your business drops down a little bit, you're not screwed because you're only investing in paid channels.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So let me ask you this, it's a bit of a loaded question. A day doesn't go by, Caleb, where I'm speaking to an entrepreneur and they're really crying the blues. Yes, Jeffrey, I went with this digital agency, I was promised the moon and the stars, I didn't even get that, and I spent [00:15:00] all this money, I've got nothing to show for it.

I hear more of that than, hey, I went with this digital agency, wow they're really Turned our world upside down in the best of ways. We are now having more prospective leads than we can handle. I've had to expand the sales team. I'm not really hearing that. So broadly speaking, what's going on out there in the industry that we should know as entrepreneurs when we're looking to get some help of, hey, help me not become the world's best kept secret.

I want to be really known out there. I want to become the world's best known go to in this particular area. What's going on? Why aren't we getting those results?

Caleb Roche: So are you familiar with Seth Godin the author? So he has a book titled, I don't know if you've read it yet, but marketers are liars, like they're great liars. And so, you know, it's one of my greatest key lines and here I am a marketer saying this, but. I mean, if you look at the marketing space in general, agencies, consultants, everything, you're going to find a lot of BS out there.

Marketers are great at, marketing themselves in either good lights or bad lights. And most, I would say, traditionally speaking, marketers are really good at stretching the [00:16:00] truth. So when they tell you that we've grown a company by a hundred percent, we're There might be some sort of caveat that they grew impressions by 100 percent and the reason they did that was they ran some paid ads, drove some additional followers, and now they're supplementing those paid ads with actual impressions.

They grew. I mean, for instance, I saw a post the other day from another company. Again, this is not a doggone companies or things like that because everyone has different strategies, different ways of growing. They posted and they said, we doubled impressions. We did this. We had, two times the amount of clicks.

If you're looking at those numbers, they got 10, 000 impressions instead of 5, 000 impressions. They got 15 clicks instead of 30 clicks instead of 15. That's great. Everyone starts at those beginnings, but what people don't understand is you can run an ad on Facebook for 5 and get those Five to 50. Get those same results.

And so from a broad industry perspective, the marketing world is full of people with big promises that cannot deliver. And so my biggest advice to [00:17:00] individuals, it's all different, but I always say, look at the reputation and ask for companies that they're working with. make a phone call out to companies that they're working with.

Talk to people that might be able to provide a referral for those individuals because the business owner is going to speak to their greatest strengths and their weaknesses. Because no company is perfect, let's be honest. If you talk to our clients, we'd have strengths, we'd have weaknesses. Maybe we struggle in this area or maybe we deliver here.

But it's really good to understand who you're talking to. Are these companies providing the results that they're saying or what's their biggest because some agencies, for instance, we like to lump agencies, consultants all in one box. You might be working with a large agency that you get really timely communication.

You have a project manager really great creative team. You might be paying 10 times what you would pay someone else. And, but you're not going to get the creative team. Your response time might be a little less, and you might not have a project manager, but you might be spending 10 times less. And so there's always some sort of trade off with that perspective as well.

Jeffrey Feldberg: That's interesting. And I know when I speak to statisticians, they say, Jeffrey, be careful with [00:18:00] what you hear out there. So back to your example, Caleb, someone saying, yeah, we doubled the clicks or the sales. Maybe the clicks were five clicks and they got it to 10 clicks. Now I know I'm being ridiculous with that, but you can say, Hey, I doubled it.

Or they went from one sale to two sales. of those is moving the dial, but they're right when they're saying, Yeah, we doubled what was there before we got there, even though it's a terrible situation. So, really something for all of us to think about is go, what I'm hearing you say is really go behind and down below what's really going on with that.

It's not enough to say, yes, we doubled this or we quadrupled that. Where'd you start? Where'd you end? How much business did you get to really ask the tough questions on that?

Caleb Roche: And it's unfortunate. I mean, I have colleagues that I know in the marketing world that they started watching YouTube videos. So for instance, let's say they, they watch them YouTube videos. They started a marketing business. I can't tell you the amount of conversations that I have with other marketing agency owners.

that they're putting out these offers, back to the offer point of like, how do we trust someone? They are literally telling business owners that they are giving a money back guarantee [00:19:00] for a certain amount. I mean, we're looking at 10, 000 in, 10, 000 in fees, let's say which for a business owner can be a lot especially if you're starting out.

Now they're claiming we have a money back guarantee, get your money back if we don't see results. What you'll find with these companies is there's lots of caveats. They have to make their money somehow. They're not going to just lose all this money because they know. They're basically delivering on this big promise.

So what they start to do is they say, well, you have to wait six months before you can request a refund. Then we do this, or if you don't cancel before. So the thing that I always tell people is if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. And the other piece is talk to other business owners. This is a big piece of advice that I give to people.

Talk to business owners on what they're doing, who they're working with, who they've heard, because for instance, I've 90 percent of our business comes from referrals. We have a couple of clients that have been five time legacy referrals. So we've had five chains of command where the initial person referred to another person who referred to another person were five times down that chain.

Now, that's where I always say you're going to have people that have great experiences with companies, and you're going to have bad experiences. There's always two sides of the story on both ends. And you have to [00:20:00] take that with a grain of salt. So all that being said, you kind of, it's easy to see all these things where these ads that come up and are you a business owner?

Are you looking to grow your business? Are you trying to do this? And it looks cool. It looks attractive. It looks sexy. But at the end of the day, you have to actually look at the numbers behind who are they working with? What have they been doing? How long have they been in the space? What's their education?

All these different factors and identify what are you going to take into account before you work with someone.

Jeffrey Feldberg: It's so interesting. And let me ask you this, because I want to learn more about your secret sauce. But before I ask you that, this is an observation you may agree, you may disagree. Back in my e learning company, when we first began, I mean, a lot has changed. When we first began, you didn't have social media.

The way that you would market, I'd call it old school marketing. We were doing traditional emails. Heck, Caleb, we were even doing good old fashioned letters in an envelope with a poacher stamp on it, sending it out. And when I compare it to today, where we have social media, we have these different communities.

Again, you can tell me on my on base, off base, to me, it seems as though marketing has taken a few steps back [00:21:00] because the results seem to take longer. We get caught up in how many clicks did I get? Or how many people am I having that are following me? Or how many people in the community? Where it's, okay, what's my cost per sale?

How quickly am I getting my ROI? Is this working? Is this not working? With us, we were always. Really looking at the results changing, but our focus was never on, are we the most popular out there or how many people are in the community? It was, hey, how quickly are we getting the ROI and what does that look like?

So to me, social media, yes, sure, there's some success stories, but I often hear more stories on the other side. Now, that's my vantage point. You could agree, disagree, would love your thoughts on that. 

Caleb Roche: Yeah, fully agree on that. I think the reason why we've taken a step back is because the space is so crowded. And I say this not only for social media, but if you think about advertising in general I keep seeing statistics out there. I don't have refreshed data. So don't hold me to these numbers, but we all know, Consumers are seeing at least hundreds, if not thousands of ads on a daily basis.

You think about it, they're scrolling through Facebook. They see 25 ads in a five second [00:22:00] session, the right hand rail, two of those, there's some story ads, things like that, you're driving down the street. You see five different billboards on the highway in a mile period. I mean, if you think about the amount of content that consumers are consuming, it's absolutely insane.

And if you kind of tailor that to this idea of how do you resonate a message. That sticks with the consumer when they're being barraged with so much content and information being put out there. And so, in my mind, with the algorithm changes, I mean, we all know it, Facebook, it used to be so easy to have a thousand followers and get a thousand likes.

 Now you look at pages that post consistently on a daily basis, they look at posting times, they might be lucky if they have a thousand followers to get five likes. On a good piece of content, quite frankly. And the other thing is you have all these TikTok algorithms, you have Instagram algorithms.

So if you think about it from a broad perspective, we're relying so much on these platforms to deliver results. And we're relying so heavily on them to, to help support our proper business. The easiest way that I can explain it is look at the [00:23:00] Facebook outage. How many people got freaked out when Facebook went down for what was it?

Two hours? I don't know if you remember that. It was like Two or three years ago, I want to say, went down for like six hours, two hours, whatever it was, people couldn't log in. Businesses couldn't post about their deals. They couldn't post about their hours. People don't know who it was, blah, blah, blah.

That's why, in my opinion, owned channels are so much more important in the long term. We talk about organic strategies, we talk about paid strategies. The more that you know your customers and the more information that you have on them, the Data wise, the more powerful you can be, because if a Facebook outage happens, if TikTok gets banned if Google goes down somehow, whatever that looks like, if you have customers email addresses, if you have their physical addresses, if you have their phone numbers, now you can call, text, email, and send them a letter, if you had to.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And Deep Wealth Nation, I hope you heard what Caleb was saying. Caleb, you're absolutely right. What we say here at Deep Wealth, if you're relying on anyone else other than yourself when it comes to your community, you're giving that source the keys to the kingdom. And forget an outage. They may tomorrow turn around and say, hey, Jeffrey, [00:24:00] we don't like that message that you put out there.

We're shutting you down. And now if all your followers, if that's how you're reaching your marketplace, you're now locked out. They've got the keys to the kingdom. And Caleb, absolutely, we should always be directing people to Our website, our email list, and sure, maybe social media is a means to an end, but it's not the and one and only source that we should be going to in terms of building the community.

So all that said, Caleb, it's a perfect segue for the next question that I was thinking about in preparing for our time together today. There is a lot of noise out there. We are, everywhere we look, getting messages from all different kinds of companies, and they are all vying for our time, and we have these gazillion dollar algorithms that are doing the same thing.

So when you're working with a business, and Caleb, you'd be absolutely right to say, well, Jeffrey, look, it depends on the business. It depends on the industry, depends where they are in their journey. And I agree with you, but generally speaking, what are you doing the first time out? You're working with a client.

You're really looking to get above the noise to [00:25:00] get the fastest possible ROI that you can. What's that secret sauce? What's going on behind the scenes with Club Creative?

Caleb Roche: So unfortunately, we have no secret sauce. I like to tell people we have we cook kind of like Gordon Ramsay and we make it way that Gordon Ramsay does. So there's that, saying that says you can have the secret sauce, everyone can have it, but that's, they're going to make it different ways.

So the way that we approach marketing for businesses or when we sit down, we do your traditional SWOT analysis. Internally. So we look and we say, everyone knows it. It's the target market. Hey, who's your consumer? But in the long run, it's so important because we look at it and we say, what's your competitive segment?

What does that look like? What are they doing right now? How aggressive are they? How many competitors do you have this space? Do you have five? Do you have a million? What's your delivery look like? So when we're sitting down with a business owner, we're looking at everything from what opportunities they have, what are they currently implementing?

What have they looked at in the past? And what are planning to do or what do their goals look like? Now, the big thing that we always recommend looking at is we like to go further than just [00:26:00] your traditional on the outside looking in. So we actually look at trends across revenue, across purchasing behavior, across the market.

Customers on a year over year basis. So if we're working with a business that's been around for, two plus years, let's say we like to look at the data and look at what are high revenue months. some seasonality behind it. Do we understand any trends based around holidays, based around events, things like that to actually understand when are our big key moments that we can deliver messages.

Now, the second piece that we actually look at is we look at the consumer behavior behind all of their audience. Now, again, if they're a little bit more of an established audience, We look to look at all of their customer behavior and understand how frequently is someone buying from them? What's their average ticket?

What's their lifetime value kind of putting some numbers together, because then that allows for us to formulate a little bit better of an understanding of if we do spend a certain amount per cost per acquisition, this is actually in the longterm going to be, important or helpful for the business versus us just saying, well, We could probably get 250 per [00:27:00] acquisition and not understanding that their lifetime value might only be 125.

So that's where we like to look at a comprehensive view and understand what is the consumer behavior behind it? What are the trends? What is the actual landscape look like before we make any actual executive decisions?

Jeffrey Feldberg: Fair enough, Caleb. Let me ask you this next question, and I'm going to preface it. So, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, I can't do everything myself. Understood. And I need to have other people who are better at doing something than I am focus on that, they're world class in that area. Having said that, as the business owner, there's a difference between delegating and abdicating.

So I can go to an ad agency and I can completely abdicate. Okay, here's our account, just do whatever you think you should do. And that's, unfortunately, what most business owners do. Or I can show up educated, smart, I know my business, and I'm coming in not necessarily knowing the answers, but I can guide them in the right way.

So as a business owner, what should I be doing, Caleb? Not to do the marketing, not to come up with the actual ads or where we're going to be putting that, [00:28:00] but to guide an agency in the right way of, okay, Here's who our avatar is. Based on our research, we are not a candidate for this social platform. And I'm reluctant to name platforms because they change so much.

Who's here today might be gone tomorrow. So, we can tell you on platform ABC, definitely not where we want to be. That's not where our avatar or target market is, but we suspect that our target market is over here. So without us becoming the actual experts in marketing, we don't have the time for that's not really our focus.

How do we educate ourselves on where more than likely. Our target market, our demographics are going to be that we can have an intelligent conversation with an agency.

Caleb Roche: A hundred percent. So obviously my standard answer is it depends, but generally speaking I always say as a business owner, it's the easiest way to learn from example. So get yourself in an ads manager account, test around things again, don't spend 5, 000 a day and burn through all of your cash tomorrow.

But what I'm saying is like, Look at the actual what does it take to create an ad? Or look on an ads [00:29:00] manager background. What can you do? Or look at Google analytics. Like start just kind of researching and trying a little bit more. Because in my mind, it's so much better when a business owner can come and say, yep, I have an ads manager account.

And I got stuck here. Or like, I wasted like a hundred bucks here. I did this. Or tried form submissions and all I got was, People from another country that did not need my services that were trying to sell me things. Because if you have that experience and you know, listen, here is some things that we've done previously, and here are our big problems.

They know that you might get a lot of spam or nowadays, on most platforms when you're doing advertising, there's a lot of like external, if you're targeting, let's say a specific city. We know that there is a margin of error that you're going to get people from other cities, and you might even get some form submissions.

So someone that has never run an ad campaign gets freaked out because they go, I got someone from Toronto and I've been targeting Oklahoma. How did that happen? And we go, well, you're on an imperfect platform. That happens. Now, if the business owner has done that before, they go, [00:30:00] oh yeah, I've seen that before.

This is a common problem. So in my mind, The short, easy answer is not saying that they have to become they have to get a marketing degree or things like this, but you have to play around. You have to go on your website, look at search engine optimization articles, read some articles online. You can find thousands of articles on advertising and SEO and things like that.

Try to learn a little bit of terms. What does this mean? Because at the end of the day, like we've talked about with hiring agencies, things like that. If you go in blind and you go like to an investment advisor, if you go in and they go, yep, you need to get annuities. You need to do this. If you don't understand the product and they're just telling you how great the product is, again, you want to put some sort of trust into the company, but you got to always understand that you have to protect your own as well.

And so if you go to an investment advisor, if you go to a lawyer, if you do whatever, you need to at least understand a little bit of the process before you make that decision. And so easier said than done, you can go down rabbit holes within marketing. As we know, there's thousands of articles that tell you different things, but in my mind, you at least have to be somewhat educated and allow for the agency [00:31:00] to Search and optimization, internal backlinking, we don't agree with that, and here's why we don't agree with that, or here's why.

Let them show you their methodology, but go in there with some sort of education on your own.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Caleb. So let me ask you this. There's always extreme. So on the one extreme, you have the entrepreneur saying, we don't need any of this. We're just gonna keep on doing it the way that we've been doing it. We're gonna do it on our own. It's gonna be word of mouth. And you know what? If they're doing word of mouth really effectively, that's always the best way of getting new customers and God bless and live and let live, and they go on that way.

Then there's the other extreme, well, AI has come onto the scene. I don't need anybody now. AI is going to do everything for me and I'm just going to have AI do it. I'm going to save a lot of money, save a lot of time. So I've given you the two extremes and where I'm going with this is artificial intelligence and by the way, when this episode airs, who knows where it's going to be, it's changing

Caleb Roche: We might have flying cars.

Jeffrey Feldberg: We might have flying cars, like in the Jetsons, exactly, who knows? But that said, where we are today as we record this episode, when it comes to artificial intelligence, where are you on artificial intelligence? And again, the [00:32:00] preface is, it can change, and you can come back and say, yeah, Jeffrey, I know I said that.

That said, it's changed, and I'm going to take that back because of this or that. But as of today, how does AI fit into what you're doing, or where doesn't it fit into what you're doing?

Caleb Roche: So we're using it right now to kind of get us better learnings from our perspective. So we are trying, and I say train very carefully because we're not like building an AI on our end or a learning model, things like that. The one thing that we're trying to understand is how do we use AI to better inform decision making and provide better recommendations, but not strictly relying on it.

So I think we can both agree when you see a Facebook post or something like that, we can traditionally know when AI has written it versus. Traditionally not. There's like little indications, like there's like little emojis at the beginning and it puts a little title. People literally copy and paste it.

Completely fine getting content out there. But what people have to understand is as more users understand, the platform, they'll start to recognize that. And for instance if someone's paying an agency to, to create social media content for them, [00:33:00] before, the client's going to understand when agency is going to chat TPT, charging them a certain amount per month, and all they're doing is running.

Five prompts through chat to BT and getting all their content, making one little creative, and then putting it out. Like people are going to start recognizing that. So in eyes, we're trying to have conversations with learning models to understand how do we better inform our audience? How do we use examples?

How do we use different things to better build marketing strategies, content, things like that. I'm at this cornerstone, where Again, everything could change. I think AI is absolutely incredible. I think it's going to, make some really great decisions. at its core, it's, predictive analytics, it's using analytics to understand what's happening and then providing some sort of prediction results based on previous data.

Where I think there is a big call out is, I think a lot of people are saying that they're using AI or they have AI models and all they're doing is chat GPT. So, I've been on a couple calls where. Companies have said that they're AI based and we go, okay, like what model are you running off of or X?[00:34:00]

And they go, well, we're using existing data from customers and we're using AI. So all they're essentially doing is predictive modeling. They're using previous data get CTRs or cost per acquisition, things like that to understand, which. Is someone AI? Someone not. So all that being the case, I think it's great for learnings, methodologies, things like that.

But I still think we have to be careful to not just fully dive into it and just copy and paste. Like we have to optimize and understand prompts.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so once again, a great takeaway. Deep Wealth Nation, did you pick up on that? What Caleb was saying? It's fine for someone to say, yeah, we're using AI and we're really ahead of the curve. Go behind that. What are they really doing? Are they really putting out a position that when you go behind the scenes, it isn't really what they say it is.

And so true. Caleb, I'm going to ask a tough question. No one really knows this answer. What would be your best guess? If we fast forward. Perhaps a year, maybe two or three years, where is AI going to be when it does [00:35:00] come to marketing? What do you think it's going to look like? And for the people there that are saying, yeah, of course, there's not going to be any digital agencies.

There's not going to be any marketing people. AI is running everything. When we do fast forward out, what does that look like from your standpoint?

Caleb Roche: Listen, there's always a market for businesses. There's always a market for things, especially when competitors come in. my best example is look at real estate. Zillow was supposed to transform the way of home buying. And there's now iBuyers where you can actually sell your home online.

Real estate agents haven't gone extinct. Maybe there's less of them in the market, but that means that there's a better pool for more talented real estate agents get more of the share. So where I see AI being is I definitely think we're going to make some movement. I think there's going to be better learning models.

I think there's going to be some really great technology from a consumer behavior standpoint that's going to understand how business owners potentially understand their customers a little bit better. And maybe, get ahead of the curve and say, here's some ways that you could deliver to a customer that's a little bit more customized based on your business model, based on previous customer's data, here's how we integrate it.

Now, [00:36:00] my only hesitation by saying that is, look at the Amazon example, right? So, Amazon, I don't know if you saw, but Amazon was at Whole Foods, or their grocery store model that they were saying that AI was predicting it, and lo and behold, there is a call center that is literally typing in the receipts, and they're saying it's AI, but it's not.

So. All that being the case, do I think AI is going to continue moving forward? Absolutely. It's not going to die. But do I think that we're going to live in a fully AI world in the next year? Probably not. You know, We're probably not going to walk in and have the door like AI facial recognize our face and provide a recommended restaurant intake or things like that.

So, I don't know if that's correct, but I guess we'll see in a couple of years whether how far off I was.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Well, Caleb, we're going to hold you to this. We're going to hold you to this a couple years from now. We're going to come back to this very episode and see where it is. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. I'm just joking on that, but that said, Caleb, before we go into wrap up mode, if there was a low hanging fruit, and again, a very general question, and you'd be absolutely right to say, well, Jeffrey, come on.

It's so general. It depends on the business, the industry. It where the evolution of the [00:37:00] business is. Generally speaking, though, if there is a low hanging fruit, if there's one action that a Deep Wealth Nation listener today coming out of this episode, before they go into the next activity, if they can do one thing that would really move the dial for them from your world, What would that one suggestion or action be?

Caleb Roche: Marketing related, not the paid marketing channels. This is my biggest recommendation on, to people that, they're trying to figure out how do I improve my marketing? How do I improve customer retention? All of those different types of things. Now, Gary Vaynerchuk I believe he's the one that told the story.

So I can't take full credit for this, but he talks about the idea of the red napkin theory. Big companies are looking at consumer behavior very intensely. They're looking at flavor profiles of food. They're doing so much behind the scenes that we don't know. And as business owners, we don't have access to see.

Now, the red napkin theory, and everyone has a different version of the story, but what I always like to say is, it's the easiest way to say it. You walk into a restaurant, and let's say you have a red napkin. The first time visitor for that restaurant gets a red napkin when they get seated down at the table.

That red napkin internally to that restaurant [00:38:00] notifies all of the staff that is a first time customer. They come out, the chef comes out, he knows, hey, how was the food? Can I make you anything additional? Was it cooked well? That individual is going to go, holy cow, the chef came out, I love this restaurant.

Now, it doesn't stop at the red napkin. As they're leaving, they get handed a postcard, or whatever, for a free dessert the next time that they come back. Now, that postcard signifies that is the second visit. So on the second visit, when that person comes back, they hand the postcard, that notifies that, that entire restaurant that, that is a second experience.

So maybe they will give them a free appetizer, or maybe they will say, here's some recommendations, or they'll look at past behavior, things like that. You build this experience where three to four times, that individual, that customer. Feel some sort of attachment to your restaurant they feel like they want to come back every single day because the experiences they've had.

So that story being the case, I probably butchered it, probably left out some things. I didn't want to go into a 15 minute story, but all that being said, I encourage you to look at your business. And [00:39:00] because customer retention, because loyalty, because behavior falls under the bucket of marketing from a broad perspective, look at small ways, small adjustments, things that you can do that can provide a much better customer experience that is going to create raving fans or better experiences for your customers that are going to bring them back in and provide referrals for individuals looking for your line of work to further enhance your marketing operations.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And really, when you think about that, firstly, it's a wonderful story, and yes, there's different variations of that, but when you think about that, if you go back to basics, all of us, we want to be recognized, we want to feel known, we want to feel like we're being heard out there, and it's a great, really, a wonderful takeaway of How are you communicating with your customers?

Are you communicating with your customers? Are you making them feel special? Or could they be that they're feeling, well, whether I'm there or not there, they don't even really care. They're not even noticing. So it's a wonderful takeaway. I absolutely love that. And Caleb, before we go into wrap up mode, is there a question that I didn't ask or a topic that we [00:40:00] haven't covered, or even a message that you'd like to get out to Deep Wealth Nation?

Caleb Roche: Just do your research before you hire a marketing company like we talked about. That's my biggest takeaway.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Or as Ronald Reagan used to say, trust, but verify,

Caleb Roche: Yes.

Jeffrey Feldberg: take anything for granted.

Caleb Roche: That's why we provide a three million guarantee. If you work with us, we will give you three million dollars back. If you don't work out. So trust us.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Ha, nudge, wink.

Caleb Roche: Wink, wink,

Jeffrey Feldberg: that said, Caleb, and I know the listeners of Deep Wealth Nation, they hear me say this for every podcast, but it is true. It's really my privilege, it's my pleasure, it's my honor, that we have a tradition here in the Deep Wealth Podcast, where every guest gets the same question.

It's a fun one, let me set this up for you. When you think of the movie Back to the Future, you have that magical DeLorean car that can take you to any point in time. So here's the fun part. It's tomorrow morning, you look outside your window, not only is DeLorean car there, but The door is open, it's waiting for you to hop on in, which you do.

You're now going to go to any point in your life, Caleb, as a young child, as a teenager, whatever point in time that would be. What would you tell your younger [00:41:00] self in terms of life lessons or life wisdom? Or, hey, Caleb, do this, but don't do that. What would it sound like?

Caleb Roche: tell myself to keep going. think there's a lot of messaging out there that we think we're being unsuccessful or for failing, or if one part of our life is not perfect, then we're not being successful. And the thing I'd tell myself is to continue going through the hard times, the great times and never stopping.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely love that. So just keep on going no matter what. And you know what, it's something about the consistency. I think it was Woody Allen and my numbers may be a little bit off, but 90 percent of success is just showing up, having that consistency to keep on going. And regardless of putting the judgment aside, a win or a lose, I'm just going to keep on going.

And, hopefully we're making some adjustments along the way, but keep on going. Absolutely love that. And before this is an official wrap, Caleb, if somebody has a question for you, better yet, they even want to become a client, they want to speak to you about that, where would be the best place online for someone to find you?

Caleb Roche: So they can go to my LinkedIn, Caleb Roach MBA, or they can go to our website, GoClubCreative. com. We have a free consultation on there, 30 minutes to an [00:42:00] hour. We do not sell on So we allow for the person to come on and tell us their problems. We provide some insights, recommendations. If they ask us to provide a proposal or they're interested in working with us, we'll definitely do that.

But our big focus is helping individuals understand a little bit better on their marketing strategy without having to hire an agency. So they can go to our website, shoot me a message on LinkedIn, happy to help provide any value I can.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Deep Wealth Nation, you heard it there. Take Caleb up on his offer. Reach out, have that conversation, see what's there. You're going to learn something new. Well, Caleb, it's official. This is a wrap. Congratulations. And as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe.

Thank you so much.

Caleb Roche: Thanks so much, Jeffrey. I appreciate you. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: So there you have it, Deep Wealth Nation. What did you think? 

So with all that said and as we wrap it up, I have another question for you.

Actually, it's more of a personal favor. 

Did you find this episode helpful? 

Have you found other episodes of the Deep Wealth Podcast empowering and a game changer for your journey? 

And if you said yes, and I really hope you did, I have a small but really meaningful way that you can actually help us [00:43:00] out and keep these episodes coming to you.

Are you ready for it? 

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So all that said. Thank you so much for listening. And remember your wealth isn't just about the money in the bank. It's about the depth of your journey and the impact that you're creating. So let's continue this journey together. And from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for listening to this episode.

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Thank you so much. 

God bless.