512 Travis Hann

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Introduction to Travis Hann and Pender & HoweIntroduction to Travis Hann and Pender & Howe

Jeffrey Feldberg: Most people build businesses, a rare few build ecosystems where culture, craft, and community become inseparable from the bottom line. Travis Hann is one of those rare founders as the creator and visionary behind Pender and Howe he spent years helping business leaders sharpen their edge, not by chasing fleeting trends or chasing vanity metrics, but by re-imagining how identity strategy and narrative fuse into enduring brands.

Travis doesn't just consult. He collaborates, elevating his clients to become distinct voices in crowded markets. His journey didn't follow a straight line. Along the way, he learned that influence isn't cultivated through noise, but through clarity of purpose and relentless commitment to real value.

Whether working with CEOs seeking authenticity, founders wrestling with growth or teams struggling to align culture with vision, Travis plans analytical precision with narrative intuition, a combiNation that feels as rare as it is effective.

[00:01:00] The companies that he's built and advised aren't just successful they leave something meaningful behind and in a world that's obsessed with scale at the expense of soul, Travis reminds us that impact without integrity is just noise in disguise.

This is a conversation about leadership that listens, strategy that feels human, and the courage it takes to build something that endures.

Deep Wealth Mastery Program OverviewDeep Wealth Mastery Program Overview

Jeffrey Feldberg: And before we start the episode, a quick word from our sponsor, Deep Wealth and the Deep Wealth Mastery Program. Here's Sanjay, a graduate of Deep Wealth Mastery, and he says, the investment I made in the Deep Wealth Mastery Program, it's a rounding error compared to the value created today and the future value I'll receive.

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Now speaking of growth and adding value, check out what Leon says. He says that the Deep Wealth Mastery Program changed [00:02:00] how and who we hire. We've now begun to hire talent today that we never would have hired if it weren't for the program. The talent we're hiring today is helping both increase our growth and profits and our future enterprise value. 

Man, I love that kind of feedback because it's that kind of feedback that's what gets me out of bed every day.

Deep Wealth Mastery System, it's the only system based on a nine figure deal. That was my deal. And as I said, no to a seven figure offer, created a system that we now call Deep Wealth Mastery, and that's what helped myself and my business partners all welcome from a different buyer, a different offer, a nine figure deal.

So if you're interested in growing your profits, preparing for a future liquidity event, whether that's two years away or 22 years away, and if you want to optimize your post exit life, Deep Wealth Mastery is for you. Please email success at deepwealth. com. Again, that's success, S U C C E S S at deepwealth. com. We'll send you all the information about Deep Wealth Mastery, otherwise known as the Scale for Ultimate Sales System. 

That's where you want to be. You want to be with other successful [00:03:00] business owners, entrepreneurs, and founders, just like you, who are looking to create market disruptions. Whether you're a startup, whether you've been in business for three or four decades, whether you're manufacturing, whether you're high tech, SaaS, low tech, whatever the case may Come in and network with other business owners, with other businesses, just like you, because they all want to lock in their financial freedom and enjoy both success and fulfillment.

Again, that's the 90 day Deep Wealth Mastery program. It has your name on it. All you need to do is take the next step. Please send an email to success at deepwealth. com. 

Deep Wealth Nation. 

Welcome to the Deep Wealth PodcastWelcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast

Jeffrey Feldberg: Welcome to another episode of the Deep Wealth Podcast. Well, Deep Wealth Nation, we have a saying here, the team at Deep Wealth. Show us your team and we'll tell you your future.

So Deep Wealth Nation, how is your team?

Do you have a team?

What's it looking like? You have all those questions of, I'm here I wanna get to there.

What do I do? What does that look like? And you know what? We have a very special guest in the house of De Paul. You heard the official introduction, but we have a fellow founder, entrepreneur, a thought leader, visionary leader in the [00:04:00] house of Deep Wealth. Travis, welcome to Deep Wealth Podcast. An absolute pleasure to have you with us.

Travis Hann's Journey from Golf to BusinessTravis Hann's Journey from Golf to Business

Jeffrey Feldberg: There's always a story behind the story.

So, Travis, what's your story?

What got you from where you were to where you are today?

Travis Hann: Thanks, Jeffrey. Super happy to be here and and thanks for having me on. My, my story starts all with Sports Jeffrey competitive in nature. Always wanted to win. Became a real big golf advocate at a young age, which led me into. Some really fascinating, great rooms because of golf, but naturally business circulated those rooms as well, which is kind of what started striking curiosity. And I ended up moving down to Florida to kind of chase a bit of a golf stream at a young age. And what I thought was good at golf was subpar and I gotta see what good looks like and then what great looks like, and then what exceptional looks like.

And was a bit of an eyeopener. And I chose to go down the business road relatively early in the golf journey, just realizing, perhaps how far fetched I was from where I needed to be. And I ended up finding myself in the world of. recruitment and I am now the founder of Pender and how, which is an executive recruitment firm and in human capital firm where [00:05:00] we help build leadership teams, guide culture with our clients. And we work with a variety of different businesses from private equity firms, venture capital firms, to the businesses that are within those portfolios. The founder led firms from. Five people to, to a couple hundred people. We've seen it all and it's really exciting. But what really led me here, Jeffrey was becoming obsessed with what made people great in sports originally.

And you see the people on tv and those are the names that we, know. But there are so many more that you don't see on tv, that are grinding it out. And the question that always caught me was, What's missing? And what are those people? Stewing on TV that are different than those that are trying to shape that dream.

And naturally that led me to business where now I'm obsessed with figuring out what great CEOs look like, what are they doing? And what makes a founder exceptional? Why do some founders have obnoxiously large exits that are great successes, but others can't figure out how to put that together and that's what our firm does is helping build those great leadership teams, and we've seen great success stories and been a part of them. And that's really what kind of lit the fire to bring me down this road.

Jeffrey Feldberg: [00:06:00] Firstly Travis, always nice to meet a fellow Canuck and Floridian all in one nudge, win, wink. You gotta watch out for those guys, I hear they're quite the lot. But that said, from the field of golf to the field of business, so you went from the golfing world into the business world. What did the field of golf, when you're a golfing out there.

Any insights or strategies that carried with you or habits or rituals into the business world that's really helped you?

The Importance of Discipline in BusinessThe Importance of Discipline in Business

Travis Hann: Yeah, discipline is really what it comes down to. Golf's a unique sport, similar to tennis, similar to any individual sport where all of the pressure is on you. When you're standing on the first tee and you have to hit a shot in front of thousands of people, there's absolutely no one else you can lean on to execute that.

And businesses the same in many ways. But I would say it comes down to discipline. When I think about the best. Athletes in the world that I've seen live or that I've been around they are so disciplined to the second. They know what they're doing the day ahead. They have it mapped out perfectly, what they're gonna eat, what they're gonna do, et cetera. And top executives are very similar. They know before they go to bed, the top three [00:07:00] things that they need to execute tomorrow. I would say that's really what it comes down to. And I've always been a very disciplined individual. And that just kind of comes naturally to me.

But there's this wire that, extraordinary people have that, that they can't let loose. But there's also a piece of talent, that can't always be I would say toss or trained Jeffrey. I mean there's a great aspect of being scrappy and being able to hustle without and sometimes the best people that win aren't always the most talented.

They're just absolutely relentless and not wanting to lose. So I think that's what it would be. I've said this time and time again but if you compare business to sports, the only sport where you don't get to practice as much as you play. In business, you get thrown into rooms to make decisions on the spot that could be life changing for many.

And that might be the first time you ever have to make that decision. So sports aren't always like that. I mean, You can go out there and hammer golf balls for hours on hours. I'm sure the environments change and what's on the line might change, but at least you get to feel what that repetitive exercise might look like.

For in business, it's not always the case.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely, and some great advice. 

Challenges and Mistakes in Business LeadershipChallenges and Mistakes in Business Leadership

Jeffrey Feldberg: I wish I had followed advice being a young entrepreneur, Travis. One of my biggest mistakes, and it actually came [00:08:00] out. In our exit, I sharing with you offline a little bit about our exit of how today we talked about the nine step roadmap and we didn't have all nine steps.

As successful as the exit was nine figures and everything, we made big mistakes and one of my biggest mistakes, the company revolved around me for far too long. So in other words. The company didn't really run without me. And by the time I figured that out, it was well into running the company. And I did too little, too late.

I already had a team in place. But when we went into our liquidity event, it was picked up by, of course, the very smart private equity and the other future buyers and the investors. Hey Jeffrey, this is great, but your team is still relatively new and as great as your company is, we're gonna ding you for that.

And I know I, I'm not alone with that. So let me ask you this. When you're working with fellow entrepreneurs, founders, business owners. Generally speaking, and you'd be right to say, well, Jeffrey, listen, every business, every founder is on his or her own journey. They are unique, but yeah, for sure. But generally speaking, is there a PATOS law, the 80 20 principle?

Yes, Jeffrey, [00:09:00] 80% of the so-called challenges, what we otherwise call opportunities here at Deep Wealth. 80% of these challenges or problems are actually coming from 20% of these same patterns that are happening again and again, or mistakes or people just overlooking or blind spots. Anything come to mind with that?

Travis Hann: Yeah, I just got off a call with a really great CEO and he kind of said it best. He said he's in charge of three things. He was brought in for three things, the three Ps process, people, and product. And that doesn't necessarily mean he's rolling up his sleeves, executing each of those activities within.

He has amazing leaders within three of those departments that can execute and people are the company's greatest asset. Always has been, always will be. Some leaders recognize that and see that a bit more clearly than others. But those who do recognize that have a really great, contagious culture that tends to take care of itself. But the one question I often ask founders, or I even see investors ask founders if we're facilitating introductions is, you know what happens if you fall off the face of the earth for a month with your business? And I used to say, what happens if you get hit [00:10:00] by a bus? My wife told me it's better to say what happens if you win the lottery. So we'll stick with that. It sounds a little bit more optimistic, but the reality is that the question comes from the same point. Can you disappear for a month and will the business be okay? If you ask yourself that and you're, heck no, it's not gonna be okay. You gotta look in the mirror and perhaps you got to. Think about what you can bring into your organization to have somebody learn the SOPs, the processes, et cetera, so that you can delegate a little bit more. If the answer is, heck yes, that's great, now maybe figure out what's missing in terms of more scalability or how do you take it to the next level?

But you really, it sounds crazy, and founders are notorious to not want to give. Responsibilities away, myself included. But you have to be replaceable and you have to be comfortable being replaceable even if you don't want to sell your business. Not everyone wants to sell their business or, is thinking of liquidity in mind, but just for the health of the organization and the sustainability of the company and the legacy you gotta have a strong number two, you gotta have a strong number three.

It's critical to business operations.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. [00:11:00] So with you there, and let me ask you again, continuing along. My mistakes, and I've said on the podcast so often, if I had a dollar for every mistake that I ever made, I would not have needed my nine figure X and I'd be actually far wealthier than what I did on the exit side. 

Hiring the Right Talent for Your BusinessHiring the Right Talent for Your Business

Jeffrey Feldberg: And for me early on when I was looking to bring on what some people call the hired gun or just outside talent, I made mistakes.

Some of the classic mistakes were, it just culturally wasn't a fit. And I know you and the team are all about culture and we're gonna get there momentarily. As a founder though, I'm looking to make a hire. Maybe if it's even my first hire, I'm gonna look to fire myself, so the company does begin to run without me.

I'm looking to bring someone in at the C-suite, president, CEO, wherever it's gonna be. What should be some either telltale signs, yes, this is the direction to go with this candidate, or red flags. Hey, you know what? Stop, run. Run as fast as you can any other direction. This is not where you want to be with this individual.

Travis Hann: think there's so much that goes into this. You're talking a bit about the assessment process and fit and how do you know that person's the one [00:12:00] where it actually starts a little, few steps before because you're talking about hiring somebody for the first time, a role that doesn't exist, technically. And I think where it all starts with is figuring out what that role actually looks like. People often use the title, Jeffrey, of, I need a COO, or I need a director of operations, or I need a CFO. You'd be amazed at how many times we go into a room with a founder and we talk about that and we come outta the room with a completely different, maybe not job title, but the scope is completely different.

One of the biggest mis-hire mistakes in this type of setting is just the misunderstanding of what the role actually is, right? And communicating that to an individual who wants to sign up for that. I've done a couple of different founder transitions in my recruitment career where we bring in A CEO for the first time in the organization, and the founder steps aside, and every candidate I've ever spoken with who I've put forward for a role like that calls me after the first meeting and says, are you sure they really want to give up that responsibility?

I don't believe it. And so they all have that little question mark of is this, are they actually ready to do what they say they want to do? So, and hey, [00:13:00] embrace that. As a founder, I think that energy is contagious. Not everyone is built with that. But if you want to see your organization truly traject to a next level, you have to get comfortable with that because. Quite frankly, the person that brings the company from, call it zero to 5 million, is very different than the person that brings it from five to 15 and again from 15 to 50. And it's not, that one's better than the other, it's skillset. So, I think to go back to your question, Jeffrey, you gotta figure out what that role actually is before you start assessing on whether or not it's a make or break higher. What I often say, and it's very practical, is as a founder in any role, if you wanna replace yourself. For the next course of the month, document every single activity and every single responsibility you do throughout the day and start to categorize that on responsibilities.

And that'll give you a real tangible list of items of what you want to give away and what you perhaps don't want to give away. And I think that is the most pragmatic way to think about a role you want to create. And it'll really help. Drive with transparency in that hire versus just pulling together some buzzwords of, [00:14:00] yeah, operations, p and l, et cetera.

It's well, what do you actually mean by wanting to give that up? Let's jump into the granular responsibility so we can find someone who wants to do that.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so as you're talking about that, it's circling back to something I've experienced. I'm sure you've been there as well. So many founders go through, and so Travis, in your experience. Why is it, do you think that founders get stuck between where their business is, where it could be and deep down they probably know, Hey, I'm not the person to take it from here to there, but they don't wanna get outta the way, find, all kinds of reasons of, yes, I should still be here.

No one can do it as good as me. List goes on and on. If we take away all the noise and we're just coming at it from, okay, this is all that I do, this is my craft, I've taken the art of science and. Business and everything else in between and the whole craft of that. I've put that all together and actually, yeah, here's why founders are mainly getting it wrong.

What would you say to that? What is that?

Travis Hann: there could be a little bit of an ego play to it,

Jeffrey, in terms of they want to do it [00:15:00] all. And listen, I'm in that boat too, and I think every founder is to a certain extent. Some perhaps recognized earlier. Or later than others in terms of there's someone out there that can do this better than me. That is where true growth is unlocked. When you can hire your first director of operations or you can hire your first CFO or your first head of sales, you'd be amazed that if you hire the right person, they're actually gonna do it better than you. So figure out what you don't wanna let go of what you genuinely love waking up to do in the morning. Try and keep that associated, but. Focused on winning, not always focused on being and that's a little bit of our saying internally is, no egos are allowed, but we're always focused on winning. And I think founders, I'll share a couple of things that also relate to your question. It's pretty easy as a creator 'cause founders are creators. They're very creative creatures but it's very easy to get drunk on ideas. It's very easy to. Get distracted when one thing starts to take off and say, oh my God, our competitors doing this. They're making money in this area.

We need to do that. Well, not necessarily. Perfect your craft first and foremost. And [00:16:00] sure there's no harm in driving innovation but try and remember that. Execution each strategy for breakfast. You gotta get reps in, you gotta make sure you have happy customers.

You gotta make sure you're focusing on the service thing first versus create. And a few of the founder transitions I've done when I've been brought in by the investors of the board, it's very much, the person's amazing. They created this thing. But they're so hyper-focused on perfecting the product that the sales are not following anything because the product is getting all the focus. You know it, it'll never be perfect. Products are never perfect. They're constantly evolving. So I think it's just important to keep a little bit of an open mind around that stuff.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So true in terms of what's there. And so in doing that, let's take the curtains, let's roll them back.

What's the method to your madness?

What's your secret sauce?

Travis, I'm coming to you. Okay, Travis, this is my company. Here's where we are. Here's where we want to be, and perhaps it's someone in sales, or we're gonna be bringing someone in for operations or the C-suite.

What are you doing?

What does that look like? How long does that typically take, and what would I expect?

The Role of Executive Search FirmsThe Role of Executive Search Firms

Travis Hann: Timelines are [00:17:00] always a little bit, difficult to put a finger on if I kind of average out all of our assignments, over the last decade that I've seen them through Jeffrey you're probably looking, somewhere between four to five weeks to get a real qualified assessed shortlist to, to review. And then it depends on the internal process of the. Company we're working with. Are we doing assessments? Are we bringing in IO psychologists? Are we good on that stuff? Do we wanna do more a two step process and kind of break bread over dinner and lunch? And e every company e every decision maker has a little bit of a different feel for that.

There are some non-negotiables, I think, in a process that we. Strongly suggest need to take place. And obviously one is, meeting in person. And I know that sounds very simple, but it is so difficult to get a true read on someone's behaviors or style communication over a screen.

We're doing this today, it's convenient for the both of us. We don't want to get out and that snowstorm and and meet in person. But the reality is decisions and teams and cultures are. Historically, all we've done in person. So the last four or five years, this virtualization has taken over, but you gotta out there [00:18:00] people. there's a really great interview concept called top grading. And there's a great book out there on top grading that that everyone should read. But the real kind of cold notes on that is, sticking with a question and asking it in many different ways over a long period of time.

And there's more nuance to it than that, but. The concept is you always wanna look for consistency as you get to know someone in an interview process. Accuracy are what they're, because sometimes people can say inaccurate things, but say it so confidently that everyone picks it up and thinks it's true. and you really wanna make sure that that the consistency's there, hence asking similar questions over the course of a process, the accuracy of what they're saying. How do they make you feel? And those are very important things over an interview process that we stay very close to, to, to feeling.

But the secret sauce is difficult. We don't have a software behind our curtain, Jeffrey, that we promised the world to. But what we do have is process. I talk about discipline earlier, personally and having discipline in the process. We know it works because we've done it so many times for the last 10 plus years. That's what's important, right? And at the end of the day, we're dealing with people, right? So it's [00:19:00] not. To one's results just based on meeting and interviewing. That's why, references, assess are important to provide as much data as you can to a decision.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And Travis, as you're talking about that, and you're talking about Jeff Smart and Topgrading, incredible book. Here's what I'm gonna put out there, and you can read the book, you can master the systems, which I did as an early founder, early entrepreneur, that said that when it comes to hiring talent, there is an art and there is a science, and here's what I'm gonna put out there.

The younger Jeffrey first starting his company would've said, you know what? I don't need a Travis. I'm going to save the fees. I'm gonna do it myself. And I did try and do it on my own versus it's like saying, okay, you know what? I'm gonna figure out the tax system, the tax code. I'm gonna file my own taxes.

Well, we'll see how that goes when the IRS comes knocking at your door because you made some mistakes or declare some things that you shouldn't have or took some deductions that you shouldn't have, who knows what that is. So when you have the art and the science coming in where you're coming in to say, okay, Jeffrey, look, we got to know you, the team, the culture.

We have our own systems. We've been doing this [00:20:00] for ages and we're now gonna curate a list of candidates that any one of them would likely be fine, but you'll make that final decision in terms of what's there. What are you doing that as a founder, I'm simply not able to do. It's not that I'm not smart or that I couldn't do it.

You're down that journey far longer. This is all that you do. This is your focus. What would you say to that person in Deep Wealth Nation is saying, yeah, whatever. I'll save the money, I'll save the time, I'll do the recruitment on my own. What would you say to that person?

Travis Hann: Yeah. And some people can. And some people do. I would say if the financial commitment is the sticker shock aspect to doing it, compared it to a wrong hire and then we talk, right? Because the wrong hire is more expensive at the end of the day you gotta think of the analogy of one bad apple spoils a bunch.

There's truth to that, right? So if you bring somebody in that's hurting your culture, your high performers there's a monetary aspect to that. If you bring them in and they make financial mistakes, there's a monetary aspect to that. There's a wasted time mistake, right? If you bring somebody in that's the wrong person for six months and you spend them trying to get there, you're now taking your eye off the prize of making money.

So. All in [00:21:00] all yes, there's a financial commitment to a service like ours, Jeffrey, but it's a lot like, selling your house if you know you could do it yourself, or you can use an agent that knows the market, knows the marketing strategies, et cetera and you gotta put some trust in that.

There's a little bit of insurance as well, an insurance feeling that goes if you're hiring. A COO or a CFO, and you're doing it yourself, and you've never hired a COO or a CFO before. I would be pretty nervous to, to do that myself. Because you don't actually know what you're even looking for.

And using folks like ourselves as an agent we're able to bring a lot of that intel to the decision making to help you make right decisions. You're able to see a lot more people, to get a real sense of who you are. And and that's what I would say to that. It's not always, cheaper's not always better.

There's a lot of ways to do things that are cheap and I think of my own experiences and the things that I've cheaped out on, I've always been very frustrated because I've had to go buy it again and buy the more expensive ones. So, there's a few ways to do things, but I would just go back to the reassurance and a lot of these organizations that, that use executive search firms, Jeff, they have full built out talent acquisitions teams, even so now we're talking about the big companies, and even [00:22:00] then we'll go and retain a search firm and it's not about. If their internal team, perhaps all, being incapable of doing the search, it's about the fact that they wanna make sure that there is an entire team and a strategy to bring the absolute best person forward. It's not always about just saving a few bucks.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely. And as you're talking about that, you're reminding me, Hey, don't look at the price. Look at the value. So in other words, you could be, in this case, you're purchasing a service and it's gonna be far more than doing it on your own, but what's the value that it's bringing? 

Terms of the wrong hire, false starts, loss opportunity costs, losing customers because of that, who knows what it is.

The list just goes on and on. And here at Deep Ball Travis, we have a maxim. And that is, treat it as though you're gonna keep your company forever on the one hand, and on the other hand, you're gonna be selling it tomorrow. Jeffrey. Whatcha talking about you're talking to both sides of your mouth. You keep it forever, sell it tomorrow?

What do you mean? Well, if I have, I'm gonna keep it forever. The danger with that is I'm gonna get lazy. I'm gonna become complacent if I'm selling it tomorrow. Okay, I'm gonna be on edge. I wanna make sure I'm doing the right thing. And it's that [00:23:00] balance between the two. I'm not cutting corners for profitability because there's legacy involved.

There's viability having the long term, but I'm not also falling back on my laurels. Well, what's worked always work. If it ain't broke, don't fix it as the saying goes. 

Private Equity and LeadershipPrivate Equity and Leadership

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so with that in mind, let's take it now to private equity firms that are coming to you. Hey, we want you to find C-Suite Leader President, CEO, whatever the case is going to be for one of our new acquisitions, one of our portfolio companies.

And the reason that I'm bringing this up for Deep Deep Wealth Nation who aren't there yet, and deep Deep Wealth Nation. Whether you do wanna sell your company or whether you don't, you better have an incredible leadership team. Forget a liquidity event. Is your company gonna be here tomorrow, next year, next month, the next decade for the future generation, if you're planning to keep it forever.

So from a private equity side of things, Travis, when you and the team are brought in, what are they looking for in a leader and deep both Nation, listen to this because this is what you're. Team should be exemplifying, because I'll put out there, it's not talked about, [00:24:00] but private equity firms are the most valuable companies on the planet.

Yes. You have those big names out there. The trillion dollar values. I hear that. But behind the scenes is private equity that's fueling that, that's funding that, that's getting that there. 

Introduction to Private Equity LeadershipIntroduction to Private Equity Leadership

Jeffrey Feldberg: So when you're brought in Travis, what does that look like? What are they looking for in leaders?

Travis Hann: I'm glad you tee it up like that, Jeffrey. 'cause the private equity folks are brilliant, right? They are very good at what they do. They know how to analyze a deal. They know what. It's gonna work and what doesn't work, and that's why their results are what they are. And I'm very fortunate to have seen inside of private equity conversations, whether it be hiring for a portfolio company where the mandate is very obvious.

And I can talk to that. But I've also seen them analyzing deals and supporting them. Finding people that are in that space, who they want to talk to as a part of their due diligence and what they look for and what they ask in those conversations. So I've I've seen them in action and I'm grateful for that.

Key Traits Private Equity Firms Look ForKey Traits Private Equity Firms Look For

Travis Hann: And, I think there's a couple things that they look for. One is when they go to buy an organization, first of all, they all have different strategies, but the consensus of them are rather similar. But it all comes down to people who is the [00:25:00] founder who is the leadership team around the founder. It goes back to the question that I asked earlier, if the founder were to leave, what happens to that team? What happens to that culture if the entire sales division is tied to the relationships of that founder, or that CEO, huge red flag, huge risk. There's no sustainable growth pattern there. So the founders listening to this, figure out the sales function.

If you are a hundred percent of the leads that come into your organization. It's a lifestyle business right now because you're missing the enterprise value that a private equity firm is gonna look for. So try and diversify that and figure out a strategy that's where we can help. In terms of, when they have a portfolio company, and perhaps they're six or nine months into an acquisition or some M&A integration, and they're starting to recognize some gaps, Jeffrey. What they look for is repeatable success. So as an individual. Done what we're looking to do before, where have they done it and to what scale? If they're looking to bring, call it a, $30 million business to a hundred million dollars business, but they're looking at candidates who have only seen $10 million businesses, that's not gonna do the trick. [00:26:00] They want to bet on things that have worked in the past. they're, not huge risk takers.

They're very calculated data-driven investors. And it goes the same to the people strategy when they build their teams. They wanna make sure that they're bringing people in who have done it before, who have seen it before, who they can sleep well at night knowing that the business is in safe hands.

So, I think, when you're a founder and you have a smaller company, it's a little bit of a different thought process when you hire on your team, because sometimes you might not always be able to afford. The person that is where you want to be. And I think the skillset is a little bit different when you're on that side of the table where you want scrappiness, you want low ego, you want hard work ethic, you want commitment and discipline.

But perhaps you do have to bet on people a little bit earlier in their stage where they haven't done it before. And that's where that cultural component and the work ethic component really comes in. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so as you're talking about that, and by the way, Travis, everything you've shared, I couldn't agree with more in terms of what's there. Deep Wealth Nation, this is not gold, it's platinum. 

The Importance of Culture in BusinessThe Importance of Culture in Business

Jeffrey Feldberg: What Travis is sharing, let's talk about culture because I know that's a big part of what you do, Travis. Not just the culture with what you have with the team, but [00:27:00] the culture when you're walking into every company.

Because for us, the Deep Wealth, the culture, that is a foundational X-Factor. Step two X-Factors here in our nine step roadmap. Culture, as much money as a competition can have, they cannot copy your culture. It's like a fingerprint. It's unique to that company. And by the way, it goes both ways. You can have a rich, thriving culture or you can have a toxic culture, and each has their own ramifications that go along with that.

So when it comes to culture, taking a culture from where it is, perhaps when it's not such a great culture to an even better one or a really good culture, helping take it to a better one, there's always that fear. Okay, we're bringing in. A hired gun, a new person, our culture is gonna suffer or it's gonna change the company as we know it.

How do you deal with that and how do you ensure that the culture is as good, if not better by the time you're done?

Travis Hann: Yeah. Culture's a funny one, and I

actually look at a book right above my head right now in my office, which is the book on Netflix and Culture and Reinvention. I don't know if you've read that one. No. Rules. Rules. And so many [00:28:00] companies have different ways of thinking about culture. The summits, the buzzwords, the some. That is genuinely their, that is their DNA and that's how they hire people and keep people. And I think of even our own organization, a lot built around culture. Jeffrey last week we were down in Mexico with the entire team. Everyone flew in for three days and we're in a real big growth period for our own organization right now where we doubled headcounts over the last year.

And we're gonna look to continue doing that strategically over the next few years. I use that. Trip, which we've done annually for the last four years, and will continue to do it fiscally given. And I, hire around that knowing that I had six new people coming into that meeting last week I even rushed one hire to make sure that we can get 'em on board to go to that meeting because I bet so much on that meeting of how our culture is actually embedded into. Newer folks who have not necessarily felt it. And keep in mind, our organization is national. So not everyone sits in one office. I would love that, but that's just not the reality of our geography, as and it's funny to see everyone coming outta that meeting. How much the integration has taken care of itself. It's nothing that I did during that conference. It's [00:29:00] just three days of people getting in one room together and you can just start to see the energy of the older folks who have been here since day one, rubbing off on the newer folks, and it's really amazing.

So I just bring that up more as an anecdote. In terms of culture, when we're even brought in as consultants, one of the things we do. It goes back to maybe our secret sauce a little bit, Jeffrey. Very rare will we lead a search without meeting the clients in person, ideally at their offices. Whether it's a manufacturing facility, a skyscraper in downtown office building. And the reason for that is, one, I think it's important for relationship building with the client, but two is. How can we go out and represent an organization and try and find somebody to come in and make an impact if we have absolutely no idea what it's like inside your company from a cultural standpoint.

Because then we're just assessing based on paper criteria of what is good. Okay. They have a CPA, they have an MBA yes, they've seen $50 million growth from a hundred million that is just the on paper qualifications, right? But how are we supposed to recommend someone if we've never walked the floor?

And how do you assess? So it's so critical, important. But [00:30:00] I, think it comes down to talent attrition, that tells you everything you need to know a little bit when you're thinking about joining a company or when you need to look inwards and stay. How's my culture? If you have a revolving door and people are leaving every. 12 to 18 months. It's a really big red flag for yourself as the founder. You gotta think about why is that happening? Is that a people issue? Is that a compensation issue? is that an industry issue? What's the reason? And as a candidate looking to join a company, that's the biggest red flag there is.

When you ask a question, who was in the role last and there's been four people in the role in the last five years, huge red flag. So, That tells you everything you need to know about culture in some ways, Jeffrey. Sure. Every case by case story, but that's what I lead with and that's how I better understand the situation.

Sometimes it's purely around attrition.

Jeffrey Feldberg: It's incredible because post pandemic, it's now so easy. It's culturally accepted. I don't have to meet with you. I don't have to break bread with you. We can be across from our screens and that's just gonna be good pre pandemic. Hey, are you a weirdo? What's going on? What do you mean you don't wanna be?

It's just amazing how the norms have [00:31:00] changed. But you're right, it's so different when we're in person and there's just that it's a human condition. We can just pick up things that you can't do otherwise, and what you're picking up on ties directly into the culture side of things. So I'm speaking about the humanness, which is an interesting segue for my next question.

Navigating the Impact of AI in RecruitmentNavigating the Impact of AI in Recruitment

Jeffrey Feldberg: Let's talk about artificial intelligence, AI changing society, changing the norms every day, making the headlines as we know it.

Where are we today? From AI on the backend back office from where you are, Travis, is it impacting what you're doing? And then on the front end, in terms of candidates getting in touch with candidates, because it seems that everyone's busier now than they've ever been before.

There's so much noise. Even getting in front of someone or speaking to someone is so much more difficult. What's that been like for you, the past, even few months or past quarter or two with ai? Have things changed or not for the better, for the worse, or about the same?

Travis Hann: It's one of those things as a boutique firm, I often say to everyone I talk to, one of our biggest advantages as a boutique firm is to roll out new [00:32:00] technologies and digital tools and softwares. see how they work. If they don't work, we roll them back. But comparable to a, big, large, global conglomerate, that's not the case for them.

They have to go through a 12 to 18 month rollout period, integration, bring in consultants, and we're able to move a lot quicker than them and try new things to see what works. On the flip side of that, that can also serve as a distraction. And right now in the AI world, just the technology world. Every day you wake up and there's a new tool going on, billion dollar valuation, this company is doing X, Y, Z to, fast track your go to market strategy and it's great, but it's also, sometimes not always practical. And AI for us, we're a very digitally driven firm. We have a very comprehensive tech stack built out that allows us to do our work flawlessly on the backend, but we'll never. I say never, but I'm mindful that the world moves quick. We're not interested in moving that to the front end where we have to remove the human from the human. We are in a human-centric business. We're at the forefront of human capital, and we don't want to replace [00:33:00] humans with a digital tool that's going to allow us to move quicker.

Because moving quicker is not always better. If you asked me five years ago, I was very much in the mindset of. Remote first efficiency. Profitability, it can increase productivity. And I'm now in the process of signing a new lease here to bring all the team into office as much as possible because I think that's where actual innovation is created. and you can see people thrive off being around people. That's what we do. It's been like that for years and years and years. So I've completely done a 180 and I'm sure my team will laugh if they're listening to this episode, Jeffrey. 'cause I'm, i'm very much changing my voice versus where I was five years ago, but I just see how much action happens when everyone's in one room and it becomes contagious.

And that is a way to lock in culture. Very hard to do that virtually in culture. It's possible. That's what we've been living off of for a while. But it really becomes magic when you do it in person.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And speaking of that, I'm gonna date myself with what I'm about to say next, or once upon a time, there is a saying. No one ever got fired for buying IBM, which [00:34:00] means if you're wondering, Hey, never heard that before, what that means to both Nation when it came to purchasing a service or a product, if you went with the quote-unquote, the big company, the big guy out there, you're not gonna get fired for that.

And in fact, maybe you'll even keep your job or you'll become a hero because they're big. They've been around a long time. And as a founder who was disrupting a marketplace, as a startup, as the underdog, from my own experience, that was always frustrating to me because I knew. In so many ways, not in always, but in certain ways.

I was better. Than the competition that has been around forever. The names that everyone knew, I knew I could do it better than them. I'd work harder than them. I'd get better results. 

The Value of Boutique Firms in Executive SearchThe Value of Boutique Firms in Executive Search

Jeffrey Feldberg: We were hungry, we were scrappy, and so that's a Travis. When we go to the world of recruitment, my goodness, there are a lot of big logos out there.

Big names. You don't have to name them. Everyone knows who they are. When you think executive recruitment, executive search, the names come into mind. And so someone in Deep Wealth Nation who's saying, okay, yes, I'm open to using a executive search recruitment firm. Travis though, Hey, you're an upstart, you're a newbie.

You have [00:35:00] all these other firms out there who have quite the experience, the name, the reputation precedes them. What would you say to that person in deep Deep Wealth Nation of why you and the team are the way to go.

Travis Hann: It's like that in every industry though, right? There's boutique players and there's conglomerates and there's a market for each and a client for each. Some clients prefer the large household name and others don't at all wanna partner with the household name for certain reasons. I just had a personal experience on my own where we were using a really large National accounting firm that was doing, an okay job. But I was just feeling like we were probably a small fish in a big pond for them. and I made the decision to move into a more boutique accounting firm, and I'm only one month in and I'm just mind blown at the attention that we're being given and the efficiency and the communication and and just excited for. To see what we've been missing for the last couple of years, quite frankly. And it's the same in our world. It's not to say the large conglomerates are not good it's just they also focus on large conglomerates. So, we are that mid-market search firm and [00:36:00] proud to be mid-market search firm where we're partner led.

So who you get on the pitch is actually who you get on the search. It's not a delegation environment where there's a. Group of analysts that get handed a file and and off they go on to the next pitch. That's just not the reality of a boutique setting where we are. But it's also a little bit more of a, sense of ownership.

Sure. You can bet on the big name in hopes that it's a bit of an insurance play, that it's just gonna work 'cause it's a big name. But internally as well for individuals that work for big companies and not just in recruitment. If you drop the ball, it's a little bit easier to hide behind the big name.

If you drop the ball at a boutique firm. That's a lifeline. There's only so many clients that circulate a big boutique firm to keep it going. So you can imagine that the delicacy to manage relationships and files is far more thought about than at a big firm where there's a volume where if you lose one of a thousand clients, okay, we still got 999. You lose one of 10 clients at a boutique firm, you just lost 10% of your revenue. So, it's a very different sense of our names on the wall, and we better always be putting our best foot forward. So that's [00:37:00] just from an inside looking outside. But like I said, there, different clients for different organizations in any industry.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And with that in mind, Travis, where is your sweet spot in terms of the type of company, firm entity that Yes, with this kind of characteristics for this company, regardless of the industry, we are their go-to executive search solution. Here we are. Let's go.

Travis Hann: It's quite diverse. we work very well with, investors, whether that be private equity, venture capital, or family office. And I think that goes back to exact reason I just told you, Jeffrey, is we are low volume. So any client that we bring in is our bigger than best client. It's not one of a million. But it is very diverse. It is not. One area we have six industries that we focus within from where our clients sit. So life sciences and healthcare technology and software consumer professional services, industrial manufacturing, and social impact. So we have, the way that we've set up our firm is where a generalist firm, which compliments investors really well, because often their portfolios they're often generalist portfolios versus being niche in one space, [00:38:00] and we're a one-stop shop for individuals like that, which is why it's appealing for them. We have partners that come from the industry that lead those spaces, that understand them intensely well. and that's why oftentimes we're working either with investors or investor backed businesses just because we're able to be a one stop shop versus them having to have six. Firms that all have different specializations. So that's where we spend a majority of our time. And function wise, anything from director, vp C Suite across all commercial oriented roles is really what we do?

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so with that said, Travis, is there a topic or a question, even a theme, an important one that we haven't covered yet? 

Travis Hann: I don't think so. 

Modern Leadership in a Volatile WorldModern Leadership in a Volatile World

Travis Hann: I think perhaps just volatility that's taking place in the world these days has changed leadership quite a bit. You have geopolitical tensions that have been more aggressive than ever before you have tariff threats that are affecting a lot of the industries and then at the same time, you have the digital transformation that's happening at absolute Godspeed Jeffrey, that's impacting organizations so quickly. So. The CEO that is running a [00:39:00] business today tends to look quite different than a CEO that was running a business 10 years ago.

And we're just seeing things change so fast, and again, going back to the boutique firm, we're able to move and be a little bit more nimble in terms of our business strategy. But I think that's a theme that perhaps is, circulating all of us, but we're seeing it daily.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So from that perspective, from a leadership perspective, and you're right Travis geopolitically, everything seems to be upside down and new headlines every day. What didn't work before is now working and vice versa. So from a leadership perspective, which affects business, what's required of a leader today, what would you see characteristic wise or skillset wise or experience wise today that's more important than it ever was before, especially.

If I'm now coming to you to, Hey, I wanna take my company to the next level, and it's gonna be on the leadership and the leadership of my team to help get my company there, what should I be thinking of in terms of the kinds of people I have on my team?

Travis Hann: Low ego is one that's always easy to say, but the reason it's more important now is because I think leaders have to be [00:40:00] comfortable delegating and not knowing answers more so than previously, because frankly, it's impossible to, when you wake up and there's a new headline about. A hundred percent tariff threat and you're running a manufacturing business that relies 80% on interNational markets. You gotta be comfortable. Knowing who to call and admitting that you don't know what to do more so than previously where it might have been more predictable. In the course of being A-C-E-O-I, I think more and more we're seeing younger leaders who perhaps have a little bit of a different sense of speed and adaptability to the digital and technology markets. Not that you have to be younger to understand that, but it's just, it's moving at a bit more of a pace where that demographic tends to. Be able to plant themselves in an organization really adapt well. I think all of that to say, the willingness to constantly learn, Jeffrey, have very low ego. And be humble. People wanna work for good people. And I think, I go back to people are our biggest asset. You often have to think about, it's like a marriage. You have to be who they wanna work for and you have to be who they wanna work with. So if you are running an [00:41:00] organization that allows there to be nonsense carried out, that's gonna impact your culture and you're cool with that, you gotta be prepared for that attrition number to be pretty high.

'cause that's just stuff that doesn't work these days. So, I think that's what it all goes back to.

Jeffrey Feldberg: it's interesting how political tides they change. And while we're recording this, it's interesting geopolitically, and this is not a political podcast by any stretch, but whether I'm operating in the US or the Make America Great again. has really had huge ramifications out there in every sense from how I'm operating my team to where my team's located to the business, everything else.

What have you seen with your clients on, okay, we're going back to being American centric and the world is gonna revolve around us, where the great power in the world, let's own it. Let's claim it has always been there until now we haven't really stepped up to the plate for, but now we're doing that. How has that changed in terms of what you're doing?

Travis Hann: I'm not a very strongly political stance guy, but I find it amazing to see how the businesses adapt and how leaders have to adapt to actually deal with that. 'cause frankly, it's out of all of our control. But what I've seen is [00:42:00] is kind of a nice thing in many ways on the inside, Jeffrey. Companies are being forced to be innovative and think about how to do business more sustainably and strategically. I got off a call this morning and it's a global CEO. They have operations in the US but they're from Europe and they've always had a decentralized finance department, for example.

And now they're centralizing that again into one hub because they want to, all be around each other in the same country, in the same city. And I think about another organization that we just launched a partnership with, and they're manufacturing organization that's going down a really fascinating new avenue.

It's just fascinating because it's forcing companies and organizations to think a little bit differently and strategically and change the course of the game plan, but it's not the end of the world. It's all temporary. In a few years it'll be a different strategy and it'll be different challenges that we're dealing with. That never stops, never easy. But it is fascinating to be forced to be innovative and to change.

And I think innovation's good. You don't wanna get too comfortable and rely on how you've been doing things for far too long. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: I think Deep Wealth Nation. What you're also hearing of why it's so important with all the stakeholders in your business. Some people call them [00:43:00] suppliers, other people call them vendors. I just call them team members of why you want to have a stakeholder, a fellow team member. In this case, Travis and team.

Who, Hey, we're changing with the times. We're observant with what's going on there. We're going in this direction. Well, so are we. We're right there with you to help get you from here to there. So that's it, Travis. 

Rapid Fire Questions and Closing ThoughtsRapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts

Jeffrey Feldberg: We're gonna go into rapid mode. It's a tradition here on the Deep Wealth Podcast. It's my privilege and honor where I ask the same question to every guest.

Here's the question. It's a fun one for you. Let me set this up. When you think of the movie Back to the Future, you have that magical DeLorean car that will take you to any point in time. Travis, imagine how it's tomorrow morning, you look outside your window. Not only is the DeLorean car curbside, the door is open, waiting for you to hop on in what you do, you're not gonna go to any point in your life, Travis, as a young child, a teenager, whatever point in time it would be.

What would you tell your younger self in terms of life wisdom or life lessons, or, Hey Travis, do this, but don't do that. What would it sound like?

Travis Hann: A good question. I'm still pretty young, Jeffrey, so this is gonna be really cliche. don't know if I'd get in the car. I think professionally and personally I'm, in as much of my prime as I can be. I mean, I've got [00:44:00] a, a young growing family that's at the perfect age where it's almost the opposite.

You kind of want to hit pause for a little bit. The company is as best as it's ever been and it's just getting more exciting. The team is exceptional and I don't know if I'd wanna go backwards. Sure you'd say Take me back five years and I'll throw all my cash into the one stock that blew up, or something wild like that.

But I'm still at the age where I'll catch up, so, I don't think I'd get in.

Jeffrey Feldberg: I love that Travis. No one's ever said I wouldn't get in, so I love that. But they have said though, and I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I'm really hearing, enjoy the journey. I don't think I would change everything or I wouldn't change anything, Jeffrey, because if I change anything. I wouldn't be where I am today.

And that is the most popular theme that I hear with all of our incredibly smart, astute, and successful guests on Deep Wealth Podcast. And Travis, before we officially wrap things up, a listener in Deep Wealth Nation, they have a question for you. They wanna speak with you, they maybe they wanna bring you on, you and the team to help get them to the next level with some new hires.

Where's the best place online to reach you?

Travis Hann: so we live on LinkedIn, that's our social media platform. Jeffrey, you can find me at Travis han there, HANN. And our company [00:45:00] website is www.penderhowwithane.com. And we're fast to respond and would love to connect and chat with any of the members accordingly.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Deep Wealth Nation, it doesn't get any easier. It's a point and click. It's all there for you. Go to the show notes. All the information is there. Travis, it's official. It's a wrap. Congratulations, and as we love to say here, Deep Wealth may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe.

Thank you so much.

Travis Hann: Thanks Jeffrey. Appreciate it. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: So there you have it, Deep Wealth Nation. 

What did you think? 

So with all that said and as we wrap it up, I have another question for you.

Actually, it's more of a personal favor. 

Did you find this episode helpful? 

Have you found other episodes of the Deep Wealth Podcast empowering and a game changer for your journey? 

And if you said yes, and I really hope you did, I have a small but really meaningful way that you can actually help us out and keep these episodes coming to you.

Are you ready for it? 

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So all that said. Thank you so much for listening. And remember your wealth isn't just about the money in the bank. It's about the depth of your journey and the impact that you're creating. So let's continue this journey together. And from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for listening to this episode.

And as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. 

Thank you so much. 

God bless.