561 Susanne Biro

[00:00:00]

The Hidden Cost of Leadership

Jeffrey Feldberg: There's a hidden cost to leadership that rarely shows up on a balance sheet. It's the private conversation a founder has with themselves after the meeting ends. The doubt, the pressure, the quiet question of whether the life they've worked so hard to build actually feels the way they hoped it would.

Meet Susanne Biro

Jeffrey Feldberg: Susanne Biro has spent more than two decades inside those conversations as an executive coach, author, speaker, TEDx presenter, and Forbes Coaches Council member. She's worked with CEOs, founders, C-suite leaders, and senior teams across respected global organizations. But what makes Suzanne's work so powerful is not that she helps leaders perform, it's that she helps them see

See the patterns they've normalized. See the beliefs running quietly in the background. See where ambition has created success on the outside while leaving something unresolved on the inside.

Her book, [00:01:00] This Could Be Everything, asks a deceptively simple question: What if success, joy, fulfillment, clarity, and leadership all begin with the quality of your inner life?

Drawing on psychology, neuroscience, and decades of coaching top executives, Susanne takes leaders beyond external achievement and into the harder work of becoming the person their life and company are asking them to become. For founders, leaders, and high achievers, this conversation goes to a place most business conversations avoid, the inner patterns that silently shape outer results.

And before we start the episode, a quick word from our sponsor, Deep Wealth and the Deep Wealth Mastery Program. Here's Sanjay, a graduate of Deep Wealth Mastery, and he says, the investment I made in the Deep Wealth Mastery Program, it's a rounding error compared to the value created today and the future value I'll receive.

Or how about William, who says, and [00:02:00] I love this, A company that's attractive to sell is also a great one to own. The Deep Wealth Mastery Program gives me the best of both worlds. 

Now speaking of growth and adding value, check out what Leon says. He says that the Deep Wealth Mastery Program changed how and who we hire. We've now begun to hire talent today that we never would have hired if it weren't for the program. The talent we're hiring today is helping both increase our growth and profits and our future enterprise value. 

Man, I love that kind of feedback because it's that kind of feedback that's what gets me out of bed every day.

Deep Wealth Mastery System, it's the only system based on a nine figure deal. That was my deal. And as you know, I said, no to a seven figure offer, created a system that we now call Deep Wealth Mastery, and that's what helped myself and my business partners all welcome from a different buyer, a different offer, a nine figure deal.

So if you're interested in growing your profits, preparing for a future liquidity event, whether that's two years away or 22 years away, and if you want to optimize your post exit life, Deep Wealth Mastery is [00:03:00] for you. Please email success at deepwealth. com. Again, that's success, S U C C E S S at deepwealth. com. We'll send you all the information about Deep Wealth Mastery, otherwise known as the Scale for Ultimate Sales System. 

That's where you want to be. You want to be with other successful business owners, entrepreneurs, and founders, just like you, who are looking to create market disruptions. Whether you're a startup, whether you've been in business for three or four decades, whether you're manufacturing, whether you're high tech, SaaS, low tech, whatever the case may Come in and network with other business owners, with other businesses, just like you, because they all want to lock in their financial freedom and enjoy both success and fulfillment.

Again, that's the 90 day Deep Wealth Mastery program. It has your name on it. All you need to do is take the next step. Please send an email to success at deepwealth. com. 

Welcome and Leadership Check In

Jeffrey Feldberg: Deep Wealth Nation, welcome to another episode of the Deep Wealth Podcast. Well, Deep Wealth Nation, let me ask you this: How are you, and if you have a team, how are you on the leadership side? Are you [00:04:00] doing the right things at the right time in the right way? Or is it, "Jeffrey, we've had better days," or, "Some of our best days are behind us, but I don't know what to do.

The company's grown so much, it's changed. Where do we begin? What do we do? Where do we start?" Great news, Deep Wealth Nation. You heard the official introduction. Hey, I have a fellow podcast host. I have a thought leader, an author, a leader in and of itself, an incredible individual, and that said, I'm gonna put a plug in it.

Susanne, welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast. An absolute pleasure to have you with us. There's always a story behind the story. What's your story? What got you from where you were to where you are today?

Susanne Origin Story

Susanne Biro: Well, first of all, thank you for having me. The story behind the story. I was always the kid that, you know, even in elementary school, was just deeply interested in human beings and people, and I see a lot of people hurting, and still do. You know, They want almost everyone you meet will wanna be other than where they are today.

They want things to be different. They wanna be further ahead. They want structures and architect and things to be lined up. And so, [00:05:00] I had never wanted people to feel bad And so, was always the kid that was going around trying to make people feel okay. And then fast-forward, I uh, went to university.

I studied everything under the sun, and psychology was the only thing that I just loved and could devour. And I thought, "Oh, if any of this can help me to enjoy life more than I do and to help other people not suffer so much, then it will be worth and then I found there's actually a career in this that wasn't counseling 'cause I didn't quite wanna do counseling.

And when I came across coaching, I was like, "What? This is incredible. I wanna work with..." Counseling's got its place, it's just not for me. I wanna go, "Where are you now and where do you wanna go, and what does that look like?" you don't even have to look at the past to wanna go forward.

I spent a long time, my mother had a barber shop, and she insisted that I learn the family trade and at the very least to put myself through school. And as I think life does it points us in all kinds of directions that really serve us. And I [00:06:00] learned more in the barber shop working with, company presidents and Supreme Court judges who came into the barber shop than I did in all my, 10 years of formal post-secondary education because here I was working with the exact clients that I now work with.

And so I was in conversations with them. I was in their physical space, and so I had to learn very quickly of how do you interact with very powerful, in this case, men, 'cause it was a barber shop and see them as human beings and have conversations and be able to read their non-verbals. And then I went, and did the coaching training, and here I am 25 years later working primarily with CEOs.

Barbershop Lessons and Imposter Syndrome

Jeffrey Feldberg: Absolutely love that story, and I want to go back to the barbershop story for just a moment. There's so many facets to that, and I know from my own personal experiences, and I've been in a number of different industries, especially post-exit with a number of investments and getting my feet in the trenches, so to speak, with that.

And some of the times it's in what some people would tend to call blue-collar jobs or other kinds of jobs, not necessarily the [00:07:00] white collar as the saying goes with that. And I know for some, if they're on the other side of the table and they don't have all those letters after their name or that pedigree or the education, they tend to barricade themselves off, or I'm not good enough, or I'll just smile, I'll be polite and professional, but that person's smarter than me, they're better than me, and I'll just do what I'm here to do and that's it.

And it's almost an intimidation. Am I worthy enough? And as I say that, it sounds terrible. That's what at least it feels like at times, and I've even felt that myself in certain situations. You didn't. So when you're in that barbershop and these people of influence are coming in, it sounds like you had a genuine fascination of, "Hey, what's this all about and what's going on here and what can I learn?

And I'm no lesser than, no greater than, I'm an equal in many ways, and let me learn from this." So where did that come

from? 

Susanne Biro: it is a great question. Well, first of all, I think we all have, what you're calling imposter syndrome. Am I good enough? I think that never leaves us, and I certainly [00:08:00] experience it all the time, as do every client I've ever worked with. one thing to note is when I was in the barbershop, I was 16 and 17, and I'm Gen X, so I was not overly impressed with...

teenagers are not overly impressed with anyone, and it's not because they're enlightened, it's because they're ignorant. So I was quite ignorant to all the things I didn't know and when you're at that age, you're, a Supreme Court judge would come in. I didn't know he was a Supreme Court judge, which likely helped me not be intimidated.

And I'd make fun of him. He had a comb over at the time, and he would say, "Don't take anything off the top." And I'd say, "Al, you don't have anything on the top. It's the side. Do you not want me to touch the side?" And, we'd joke about this. And then, I don't know, it was a couple years later that I learned that he was a Supreme Court judge, so when he came in, I was like you could've told me you're, like, a really big deal."

And he's "Nah, I love that you didn't, know that about me." So I kinda had a great way in as far as being Gen X and not being overly influenced by authority and being an, a late teenager. I think we learn fear [00:09:00] more as the more sophisticated and mature we become because we know how much is at stake.

So that was an easy in. But I, think we all have this fear of am I enough will I fail, will I embarrass myself? I don't think that ever leaves us, and I think, quite frankly, that's our integrity speaking, and we might see it as that, is that if you don't have that, then I would be concerned 'cause really a driver to want to be someone of character, integrity, to do well, to serve other people well.

I think it's a beautiful piece of our humanity that I don't think we wanna lose.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Well said with that. 

Success Without Fulfillment

Jeffrey Feldberg: And by the way, Deep Wealth Nation, while we're talking about this, please go to the show notes and pick up Susanne's book, "This Could Be Everything," for anyone who wants to make their tomorrow better than today. And I have to share with you, when I was preparing for today, I stopped what I was doing.

I was barely into the research, and there was three words that you said that's right out of my playbook: success, joy, fulfillment. And that's right out of the [00:10:00] gates that you have that right up there for the world to see, and I don't see that a lot because at Deep Wealth we have the saying that all the success, the accolades, all the zeros in the bank, it means nothing if you don't have fulfillment and the joy that goes along with that.

So in other words, success without fulfillment is failure, and you're saying very much the same kind of thing. And before we even go further, where is that coming from? What's the story behind the story on that one?

The Inner Life Strategy

Susanne Biro: twofold. My own experience of life and my own journey, and then, I've spent 25 years working with literally thousands of some of the most successful men and women on the planet in very senior level leadership roles almost every different industry, many different parts of the world.

I think we keep coming up against this assumption many of us have that I can solve an inner life issue achieving something in the outer world. and we keep doing it like a fly against the [00:11:00] glass harder, faster more. If I just get more, whatever that is, I will finally be okay and can relax and enjoy my life.

The great thing that I want to impart is it can't be done. You can stop trying that. There's a better way that looks focusing more on our inner world and how we wanna feel, like how we dream of feeling. 'Cause, we want money for a reason. We need money. It's a necessary thing, and more money's better.

It really is. It's the power to do great things. And so we want it, but we largely want it for a feeling we think we're going to have. So I just say let's work at two levels at once. What are the external things that you want to achieve, line up? why does that matter? And how do you think those things are gonna make you feel?

And then let's make sure you know how to feel them right now, because they won't necessarily come With the bigger house, the, nine-figure exit. But that alone will not necessarily give it, and we know that because if that wasn't the case, then people that just had more [00:12:00] money would, be much happier and we know that that's not the case.

It's maybe necessary, but not sufficient. So we need the other piece, which is let's start to look at how am I thinking? What's my relationship with life? Because we will repeat that exact way of thinking and feeling in entirely new circumstances. We get the nine-figure exit or whatever it is we think we want.

And then we realize, well, that didn't do it. It wasn't enough. All the accolades it doesn't answer this thing and so great, then let's look at answering that thing right here, right now. And then by all means, go get the bigger house, the nine-figure exit, the big beautiful body or the car that you...

those things are fun to do and chase. But they're not the end of it. They're not the answer to it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: They're fun until they're no longer fun. And Susanne, as you're talking about that, my goodness, you're taking me down memory lane, and I can only hope that the post-exit Jeffrey and even the pre-exit Jeffrey, having [00:13:00] heard this conversation that we're having right now, would have listened to it. Because I can tell you there were times where, sure, before the exit I was working 24/7 and I was a 13-year overnight success and all those other things that go along with it.

So when I finally had the time and I had the means, sure, I was after the shiny object and this and that, but there were times where I would wake up in this luxury hotel, which by the way, they all look the same, and I'd ask myself, "Where am I again?" I couldn't tell. And I would check off, "Oh, I want this or that," and they're all material things.

thinking wrongly that it would fill, at the time, this black void inside of me, like a black hole inside of me that was just unhappiness. And for a very short period of time, it could have been a day, it could have been three days, I assure you it wasn't much more than that. It was, "Okay, been there, done that, I'm bored.

What's next?" And it just was an insatiable hunger that I finally [00:14:00] began to realize, hey, happiness, it's an inside job. There's nothing materially that can change it. And yes, to your point, money does make a difference. Money can help. It's like oil. It can help make life easier. It can help make life smoother, but it's not gonna be the answer to all the challenges.

And so from that perspective, with what you talk about in the book and what you've done with your writing or your TEDx talks, or you're on the Forbes Council with the articles that you're putting together and just you're hobnobbing with all these different leaders, when does the I'll feel better when, when that becomes a life strategy for so many leaders?

Okay, I'll feel better when the board gives me that bonus or the company reaches this threshold or we surpass that goal. When does ambition become a way of me holding off on that joy and fulfillment? And while you're thinking about that, it's a terrible way to ask questions. I'm just loading them on one after the [00:15:00] other. how do I even know that's even a strategy for me and that I'm not only postponing joy, I'm welcoming misery and unhappiness into my life? How do I even know that that's happening? So would love your thoughts on that.

Susanne Biro: Yeah. 

Rewiring Thoughts With Neuroplasticity

Susanne Biro: let me answer it this way. What we now know about the human brain, like Scientists used to say, the human brain is set by age 30, but we know that this is not the case anymore, that we have this thing called neuroplasticity, which sh- simply means the more we think a thought, the more we will think it, and it's by thinking a thought that we strengthen that neural pathway in a very real way, then structure our physical brain.

And so, the way that we are thinking, we are repeating a way of thinking and interacting and interpreting life, and what we wanna do is take a look at that first things first. What's the way that I think right now? So the place that I start is first of all, are you aware that you have thoughts, that you're not your thoughts?

First, we wanna c- create a separation. The example I give in the book is someone cuts you off in traffic and you think, you know, "What a jerk," your first thought, and then you get [00:16:00] mad. What's the thought? How do I feel? You know, Are you aware that you can also have another thought like, "Whoa, that person must be in a hurry.

Maybe there's been an accident or they're rushing to the hospital"? And then if you had that thought, you would think, "Oh, I'm so grateful that's not me." You know, Same situation, but two vastly different thinking and feeling interpretations that actually change your physical body and your day for at least a moment, if not longer.

So are you aware that you can th- you know you have thoughts but you're not your thoughts? 'Cause you, in s- in that example, most of us can go, "Oh yeah, I could choose to go, 'He's a jerk,' and be mad, or I can choose to go, 'Maybe something's occurred,' and have, gratitude and empathy and go on with my day."

That's a really benign example, but most of us can understand it. so we wanna have sort of some separation between can you see that you can choose thoughts and you have them, first thing. Then it's let me see, where am I spending most of my internal attention now? Like, We only have so much internal attention, and where do I place it currently?

And one of the [00:17:00] ways you might do this is to go, "What are three thoughts I had this morning?" And are the... And you write them down. One thought I have repeatedly is I should be further ahead. I have had that since my 20s. It makes me feel anxious, bad. It's a terrible thought. It ruins an otherwise really good day.

And so you might write down what are three thoughts you had this morning, and notice how those thoughts make you feel. Notice if those are thoughts that you've-- you know, they're new thoughts or you've actually repeated them for months or years. Just notice what are three thoughts, just three simple thoughts.

And so notice where you currently place your internal attention now and just go, "Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting. Is that a thought I wanna continue? Is that how I wanna feel every day?" If not, then we need to go, "How do I want to feel? Like, how do I imagine I will feel when I, have my nine-figure exit?"

Free, at choice, excited, proud, whatever that might be. And then go, "How am I going to [00:18:00] need to think? How would I need to think today in order to feel those feelings today?"

Jeffrey Feldberg: Ja

Susanne Biro: of thought that you could start to rehearse today and direct the focus of your inner mind that would foster those feelings.

Then you feel the way you intend to feel at the end, it's too lengthy probably for this piece right now, but there's great research. The more that I feel that way the more I will outperform as a leader in a way that will matter to the business, and the more likely I am to be actually successful in, in concrete business terms.

So happiness is the way. And it's not quite happiness, but it is feeling, alive, excited, inspired. Not everything needs to be a means to an end. It's like I'm living my dream now, and of course I want that external thing and that thing and those markers, but that's not the point of it.

The point is this feeling.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. And that's what I love about the words fulfillment and joy. Happiness can mean so many different things to different people. Joy and fulfillment [00:19:00] really for me, happiness is a means to an end to the joy and fulfillment. 

What Do You Want

Jeffrey Feldberg: A- as you're talking about that, Deep Wealth Nation, I wanna take you to chapter two.

And Susanne, I'm gonna quote chapter two about you and for you. The very first paragraph: "Take a moment to consider who are you? What defines you? Is it your job, your relationships, your values, religion, or politics? Is it what your parents believed about what you or what your friends say? Is it who society tells you to be?"

And I'm fast-forwarding a little bit, and now here comes the real winner here. It's one question. It's four words. Okay, that's who I think I am. Then you ask the question, "What do you want?" And I love that because who I think I am, that's the narrative, it may not even be my narrative. I am repeating what my friends told me or what my parents or my mother or a mentor who whatever told me, "Jeffrey, this is what you should be."

But is that what I really want? And where I'm going with this, I wanted to ask you now, so now we're in the C-suite. [00:20:00] We're at the leadership level. Very successful people that you've been working with, companies that we've all heard of. To me, it's my favorite question in this kind of situation. Is there a Pareto's law relationship?

Some fancy words there. The 80/20 principle. Yes, Jeffrey, it's interesting. Of these very successful people, these leaders that I'm speaking with, 80% of the challenges that I'm seeing are all coming from the same 20% of these patterns or these root causes here. Are there any patterns that jump off the page for you as we're talking about that?

Solving For Peace

Susanne Biro: Yeah. Let me answer and see if I can answer it this way is I think it is, ... And your audience will get this right away, like what are we solving for? But to answer that for ourselves. What am I actually solving for? Like think as a society, especially for your audience given largely North America we're solving for wealth. We're solving for the largest amount of money and the most amount of goodies quite unconsciously. But that's not really what any of us really want. We want [00:21:00] what these, those things give us. And so we can look at what am I actually solving for is the real question. Like my answer for myself is peace.

It is for many of my clients. It shows up in different language. It shows up would just love to enjoy my leadership role and current success more than I do.

Be incredible. I'd love to feel more at peace. I'd love to be able to turn my mind off. Love to be able to be present with my kids or my family

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so in this case, it's peace, so I can, okay, yes, I'm leaving nothing on the table at the office or in my vocation or whatever I'm doing, but I'm doing that not for the sake of doing it. I'm doing that as a means to an end so I can turn things off. I can have a life that I enjoy with my kids and my family, for your example.

And so it's a great question. How do I turn things off? Because I, I'll put myself under the microscope especially the early days, my founder days, when I was with the family, I was thinking of the business. When I was in the business, I was thinking of the family. It's a miserable way to [00:22:00] live. And I don't know if I'm that much better today, if I'm honest with myself, even though I've had a lot of time to practice that and hone in on that.

What would be

Directing Attention and Presence

Susanne Biro: Jeffrey, what you just said is really key. I love that you just disclosed, "I don't think I'm that much better at this." I think it is one of the most challenging aspect of being a human being is can we direct the focus of our mind? Because we are living through an unprecedented time of change and technological advancement, and there is so much more information coming at any of us and change than any other generation has ever lived through, and we're trying to lead a business in that time.

And so we might have some compassion for ourselves. this is a very unique time, and if it feels impossible, it's because it almost is. What I think is exciting is we either learn how to do it here or we can't do it anywhere. So it's great, you don't need to go anywhere. Nothing needs to change for you to do it, is you start to do your own mental sit-ups right here with the exact circumstances that we find ourself in, which is at work and I'm thinking about my [00:23:00] family and I need to

That's what meditation is. Bring my mind back is I'm gonna, do I need to do something about that now? If so, pick up the phone, call your spouse. If not, go you know, I've gotta bring my mind back to business. Similarly, as soon as you leave the office and/or you enter, you can be very intentional.

I'm entering the door of my family now. How do I want to be? And of course, as soon as you get there, your mind will race to work because that's what it's gonna do, and you're gonna gently bring it back, every time you bring it back is an incredible win. That is the win, and that is the work.

It's not that you can do it all the time, that you're ever gonna arrive. It's that I'm bringing just a little bit more awareness. I was playing with my kids doing Lego on the floor, and I wasn't even present for like, 10 minutes, but I noticed and I brought myself back,

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah.

Susanne Biro: and that's the win and that's the work.

And the more we do that, just like with six-pack abs, no one can do this for you. The more you do it, the more you will have control of the focus of your mind, and [00:24:00] I think that's what most of us want. Can I direct my attention to who I want, when I want, so I can have presence? And that matters in business because if you are in a negotiation, you want to be there fully so you can pick up on all the information that is actually happening in the room.

And so it is one of the greatest muscles that will serve you personally, professionally, but it is that work of just bringing ourself back to where am I right now?

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. 

Work Family Boundaries

Jeffrey Feldberg: So much there with that, and actually as you're talking about that, you're bringing me back to the time where I just began to learn to meditate. It doesn't matter what the system is. I'm not even gonna name it because it's different for different people. For some, it could be lifting rocks. That's their form of meditation, and others is the more traditional way.

As I was learning it, I was told, "Jeffrey, it's normal for your mind to go a million different directions. Don't beat yourself up. Go back to the basics here," and exactly what you're saying. And then the other thing that you're sharing, which today I suspect is a [00:25:00] lot harder thanks to technology, no fault of the technology, where people are now, wherever they are, they can be conducting business.

It could be on their phone, or they're working from home now. Maybe they don't even go into the office. And so it could be they're with the family, they're taking a business call, or they're in the playroom with the kids, they're doing business. What I'm hearing you say is, and it makes so much sense, do your business, your activities, your calls, your meetings, do that in one room.

If you're working from home, designate a room Hopefully off to the side, you can close the door literally and figuratively. And then when you're with the family, you're really with the family to not intermingle so that our brain begins to associate, "Okay, I'm in my home office. Okay, this is my home office.

Yeah, sure, the family's just across the hallway here on the other side of the wall, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm focusing now on the business activities, and this is where I'm at. And when I close that door, it's family time or vice versa. I'm leaving the family, I'm [00:26:00] walking into my home office. Okay, game on.

Let's go. It's all business." How am I doing with that? Making a effort, a concerted effort of where I'm conducting my family time and my business time.

Susanne Biro: think we're all tasked with setting those parameters in a way that works for our business and our life, really clear structures around that, and then also we can be physically present but not be, and so it's also that work inside of when you are, in the next room with your family learn to be there, and that will take practice and work especially.

And if you can't get there, you're better off actually going, "You know what? I can't get there today because I'm really panicked about something." Now, you know that's true for me. There's times when I literally can't get there. I'm too concerned about something, and so I say, "I'm gonna go work." And I'm just honest with myself is that and then I like, let me, if I'm gonna half work, I'm gonna work.

Um, and then when I'm not gonna work, I'm going to be out [00:27:00] not working. My mind is gonna come to something 'cause I'm bothered by things that, we all have responsibilities and concerns and worries. And when they come up, I go, "I'll get to that in two hours once the kids are in bed," or whatever might be the case.

And I bring myself back, and bring myself back, and sometimes that's all I do the whole time. But my own experience and the experience of my clients is being able to direct the attention of your own mind

So that it doesn't go all over the place, I think is what we're looking to control ourselves.

and when we do that, we have no need to really control other people, and we have great confidence then because I know I can control where I place my attention, how I manage myself how I show up, and so I think we're looking for that. And I think it's the greatest work we can do that has the best payoff.

Trust Is Everything

Jeffrey Feldberg: Couldn't agree more, and actually it's a great segue to your chapter seven in the book, Trust Is Everything. And couldn't agree more. I know on the business side, I'm sure you'd agree with this, that if I'm looking [00:28:00] to bring on a new customer, so I'm going from suspect to prospect to customer, or I'm looking to bring on an investor or a buyer for the business, I can have the best solution in the world If they don't trust me, it doesn't matter.

It's just not gonna happen. So trust is everything. Even the example that you just gave, if I can't trust the team or they can't trust me, then we've got some bigger problems that need to be addressed. So whether I'm a founder, whether I'm someone listening to the podcast, I'm in the C-suite, I'm on the leadership team, trust is everything.

It's one thing to say it, it's another thing to create it and to live it. And so two questions are both intertwined. 

Earning Trust Through Service

Jeffrey Feldberg: How do I even know if the trust is there with those around me? And if it isn't there, how do I begin to earn it?

Susanne Biro: let me answer the first piece. I think how we earn trust is we do the work that we've just talked about, which is not using people in situations as a means to our [00:29:00] end. Because people feel it. when we do the work to come present to other people and situations and say, "How can I be most helpful to you?" How can we use the time that we're gonna spend in a way that's useful? I can tell you about products or service I have, if it's a sales call or But first let's find out what you most want and need. And when we come really in the spirit of making other people's pain point goes away or helping to serve them in some manner, I think people feel it.

They really feel it, and so it's always been the simplest way, and I'm not the first to say it, Zig Ziglar, help enough people get what they want, you'll get what you want. has to be genuine, and I don't think we can get there from a place of, "I've got to get this," in order to reach there to be okay.

I have to be, "I'm okay. I don't need anything from any of my clients. I don't need anyone to hire me." I meet with people and say, "What do you need? What are you looking for? How can I be most helpful in the hour we spend? I may not even be the best person for you to work with. Let me hear what you need."

And when we [00:30:00] come in that way people trust us because we are trustworthy. We come with great intention to care about them and their success, and they feel it. And so that's the simplest way, how to be trustworthy and just care about other peoples, want them to be successful regardless of what that may mean for you. If you can get there, you'll be rare.

Trust Works Anywhere

Jeffrey Feldberg: the risk of asking a silly question, I'm gonna ask it anyway. So when it comes to earning that trust and showing that trust, it's not just words, is there a difference of our approach if we're in the office, it's in person, or it's now gonna be virtual?

Susanne Biro: I don't think so at all. In some ways when we're really we come to serve, we would call it servant leadership, we can call it all kinds of different things. When we really come and we, like people, and we care about their success, they know it, they feel it. We can do it on a video call, we can do it...

I used to, for years I worked solely on the telephone. I wouldn't even know my clients if I saw them in person. We can be a voice on the phone. And, I always think when I meet [00:31:00] with a potential client or someone interested in anything that I have to offer, I have about 30 seconds to a minute to establish trust and credibility and psychological safety. And so I need to get that and the only way I can get that right is by being present, doing my homework of course ahead of time, that's a given, being present with them and going, "How can I help you? What do you need?" And then using... I don't cite my resume or share, it's like, "What do you need?

How can I help you? How can I help you more successful?" And then good. if that's useful, they will know where to find me.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So it sounds like having a genuine interest, taking the timeout, pausing, "Hey, how can I help you? How can I be of service for you?" Even if it's not business-related, it's on their mind though, and you can be a resource for them. Maybe not even your area of expertise, but at least you're listening and you can, "Hey, speak to this person over here," or, "I found this great solution over there."

But really it sounds like being there for them, being a sounding board, no judgment. [00:32:00] How am I doing with that?

Susanne Biro: Yes. 

Seeing Leaders As Human

Susanne Biro: And I think when we work with people more senior than us, almost no one ever sees them anymore as a human being. Everyone around them wants or needs or is trying to get something from them. So if you can be the one person that genuinely goes and notice them, like what their life must be like "How are you?

How are you doing today? Here's what I was thinking we could cover in our meeting," you know, "But you seem distracted," or, "Is this still a good time?" Or, "What would really serve..." Like really pay attention to the other person, 'cause they are a human being dealing with, just like the rest of us, a million and one things that can include, things happening at home, their own health of their loved ones.

you know, There's just-- Being a human being is a really daunting endeavor. So, the more that you can pay attention to people and stop worrying about what you need to get out of something the more I think we serve people, and then that always comes back. I've [00:33:00] never worried about it, my career's been just fine.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Interesting as you're talking about that, Susanne, because I've been very fortunate as the guests of the podcast, a lot of them have been in the services, and this is literally where someone will take a bullet for you and vice versa. Your life is on the line, so it's no longer the business arena, it's the battle arena.

And one of the questions I ask, this very question, "Well, how do you get the trust of the people that are serving under you?" And they all say more or less the same thing, "Jeffrey, just because I happen to be their commander or their leader, it means nothing. It's not until I earn their trust," just like what you're saying of taking an interest in their lives, what's happening with them, even though it's nothing to do with our mission or what we're there for, that they know, "Hey, I've got their back no matter what.

It could be with what we're doing here on the base. It could be with the family, anything else. It doesn't matter. They can come to me, that they can trust me, that I've got their back. Then and only then I've got their trust, and it doesn't matter what my rank is. It's because I've been [00:34:00] there for them. I've taken the time to care, that they feel heard, they feel seen, and they feel cared for."

And I'm hearing you say really the same things. And why would it be any different? It's the human condition when you think about it. Thoughts about that?

Susanne Biro: Yes, that's great. one industry I haven't spent time in is the military. know Simon Sinek talks about it as well in that sense. think that's beautiful. And that is the essence, and it's, not new. 

Make Meetings About Them

Susanne Biro: What is new is, it takes substantial self-development to genuinely get there, 'cause we're so afraid, and it's like, "We gotta get this, I gotta get and we use people in situations as a means to our end, shooting ourself in the foot and we can't see we're doing it. you know, if we can just set aside our own needs. what the listeners might do is do this in your next conversation, your next meeting.

Make the conversation or the meeting valuable only to the other person and what they might want or need out of that and full stop. Just do that, and then see what you notice by doing that.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. [00:35:00] Yeah, Zig Ziglar, Jim Rohn, they all say the same thing to what you're saying, "Hey, go the extra mile." Here's the key though. You're going the extra mile and you're not expecting anything in return. It's not quote-unquote pro, "I'll do this for you because you're gonna do this for me." And so that's one terrific exercise.

Deep Wealth Nation, your next conversation, I mean, here's a low-hanging fruit. Your next conversation is all about the other person. This is nothing about moving forward with your agenda. It's all about the other person's agenda, and try that, and I would not be the least bit surprised if your results, your joy, your fulfillment start to go off the charts.

Let me ask you this though. 

Five Minute Morning Practice

Jeffrey Feldberg: For the founder or the CEO or the leader, anyone who's listening, to do the inner work, they're busy. They don't know which end is up halfway through the day. So what is doing the inner work? What could it actually look like in a busy day for people in a leadership position?

What would you suggest?

Susanne Biro: Here's what I have in my book, and I've shared this now with, gosh through [00:36:00] podcasts over five million people. It's called a daily morning practice. Here's how you're gonna start to foster the mind that's really gonna serve you. You're gonna set aside five minutes. Everyone's got five minutes.

Set an alarm on your phone if that's useful. You're gonna take out a piece of paper and/or have a journal book where you write notes for yourself. In the five minutes, the first thing you're gonna do is write an intention for the day. Who do I want to be today as I handle the million and one things required of me?

You might say, "I want to be present, inspiring, encouraging, available." And so write down an intention. And then for the remainder of the five minutes, you're gonna write down as many good, exciting, inspiring thoughts as the day could hold for you if you would only let it. What could you be excited about?

I get to meet Jeffrey and be on his podcast. That was a dream of mine years ago. Uh, I have a book out. I mean, The ... it's incredible. My kids are healthy and well, and I got to be a mother, and I like our house, and I'm healthy. [00:37:00] I have clean drinking water available to me, that alone. I get to have a hot shower today.

There's so many things. We have so much abundance, we don't see it anymore. So it's a practice in what could you be excited and feel good about today if you directed your attention. So that's what you do for five minutes. You write it down. Act of writing so much more powerful than inputting.

So actually write it, then take it out at least once during the day. I recommend do it just while you're eating lunch or because you'll remember to do it. And remind yourself to ground yourself in it. Who did I want to be again today? And what are all the great things I could choose to like, remember? know, It's not to forget our problems and the challenges and the things that we have to do. It's could we just balance it out with truth? And if you do that for at least a month before you judge any impact of it, because you're literally starting to redirect the focus of your mind, not to a Pollyanna or [00:38:00] everything's rosy, to a balance of there are so many beautiful, good, exciting things that happen in my life right now.

Don't let me miss them.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah.

Susanne Biro: Let me remember them, and they will feed you so that when you go out there and handle the all the problems that will no doubt come, 'cause that's why you're there, you handle problems, you'll have the energy for them. You'll be like, "Sure. Okay, what the hell just happened? That blew up."

You know, And you'll have levity with it, and you'll be good to the team instead of stressed out and anxious and cold and sharp with people.

Gratitude And Focus

Jeffrey Feldberg: It reminds me as you're talking through that of what athletes will often do in their mind before the big day, whatever that day could be. It could be a race, it could be who knows what it is, a competition. But in their mind, they're mentally rehearsing it, of what it's gonna be and how they're gonna be.

But I want to go back to question two, what can I get excited about today? And if I were to put that in a word, it's really gratitude, and what can I be grateful for today? And I know there's all kinds of science, [00:39:00] and the studies have shown that of all the emotions, gratitude is one of the, lack of a better word, highest charged emotions.

It's one of the emotions that really resonates the most in our brain. So what's going on with that when we can put ourselves in a state of gratitude before our day begins? That you know what hits the fan, we lose it, but we wrote it down earlier when we're in a better state, and now we go back to the state of gratitude.

What's going on behind the scenes that you want us to know with that?

Susanne Biro: think it's just we will live in the whatever we choose to focus on becomes our world. So if I focus on all day long I'm rehearsing problems, and that's consuming my internal attention, then I live with just one damn problem after another and then I die. You can choose to live that way.

It's very unrewarding. It will make you less effective with people, and everything you need to do really involves other people. Everything you care about involves other people, like having great relationships. So that's not an ideal [00:40:00] choice. better choice is what do you wanna fill your, mental home with? that will be how you feel and the life you lead. And so wouldn't it be better to go, "Man, there's so many exciting things in my life. I'm so young and healthy right now, and I have all this potential, and I know one day I'll look back and go, man, look at how we were just starting out," or whatever's true.

Or, "Look at all the success I've been able to create. I that's incredible. Look what we did, and it exists now." So bring more truth to your situation, and then that will be what you actually experience. You will live that today. You will live more of it tomorrow because you're thinking about it and bringing attention to it.

it is neuroscience, you know, it's not rocket science. So if we look at everyone here listening knows if you buy a red Mazda, everywhere you go you see a red Mazda. Why? Because you're paying attention to it. This is that exact same principle. I don't think enough successful people are paying attention to how [00:41:00] great things are now and all that they have right now.

If they did, they'd have the other piece that they're looking for. And so it's just developing that. So I, in the book I say just have a, an inner life first focus. focus first here as opposed to chasing things in the external world. Just flip them.

Jeffrey Feldberg: It's interesting that you talk about that because in our Deep Wealth Mastery program, when we do go behind the science, I'm gonna use some fancy terms now, to the red Mazda or we use the red sweater as an example. You buy that red Mazda or you get that red car, and all of a sudden you see it everywhere.

Is that they just magically appeared out of nowhere? Well, they're always there, but the, here's the fancy words, the reticular activation system in the brain, we put that on the radar and now it's looking, our brain is looking and searching to keep us safe. And this is of-- this is important to Susanna or this is important to Jeffrey.

Let me find things in the environment that are gonna help them with that. Our mind can be an amazing thing, so I love how you're putting that out there. And also to go back to [00:42:00] something that you said earlier, which can be overlooked. It's easy to say, but there's so much truth to it. When we're serving others, the servant leadership, as the saying goes, oftentimes the giver will get more than the receiver. And when we're helping other people of going within, how does that really make me feel? Oh my goodness, I thought I was having a bad day. I thought my life had challenges. Oh, poor so and so over there. Wow, do they ever have some challenges. That really put it in perspective for me. I've actually got it pretty good relative to that, and it's such a reframe, but we're also making a difference.

So I love that suggestion and, hey, look back so we can look forward, find the gratitude, put your game plan forward. In the early morning before you begin or whenever your day begins, do that first. But as we're talking about this, Susanne, I'm having a great time with this. You're having a great time with this.

For The Logic Mind

Jeffrey Feldberg: I know there's people in Deep Wealth Nation, "Yeah, Susanne and Jeffrey, sure, great stories, and I get it's all science-backed. That just doesn't resonate with me. I am all [00:43:00] numbers and facts and logic, and I'm not hearing any of that. I can't relate to it." How could we speak to that person in Deep Wealth Nation of what they could do in a way or of a language that could speak to them that, "Yeah, hey, here is some proven strategies that can really make a difference for you"?

Susanne Biro: Yeah. First thing no human being is purely facts. I know lots of people in business like to say that. The way the human brain is structured, in order to make any decision, you have to go through the emotional channel of your brain. it's simply not true that We can make a purely logical decision.

What we do is we make emotional decision, then we back it up with facts and logic. And so that's a, a, book Descartes' Error uh, outlines that those who are interested in. the listener who says, "That's all well and good, but doesn't do it for me," is it's not enough to know it.

It's like you and I both know everything we need to do about health and fitness. I know I need to drink more water, I need to lift heavier, I need to X, Y, and Z. It's not enough to know it. You actually have to do it, which is why I wrote the book. The book is not more [00:44:00] information. It is, how do you apply this information?

And you actually have to do these things. And when you apply it in the moment of the day, right today- You watch your thought go to a thought you know, feel behind. Interesting. That's interesting thought. Wow, how long have I thought that thought? Do I wanna continue? I mean, I'll spend my whole life thinking that if I'm thinking it now and repeating it.

How am I gonna need to think in order to feel the way I wanna feel? And you've got to do that work. The problem is it's very hard and elusive to think about our thinking, and we're quite blind to our thinking because it's us. We take ourselves as our thinking, which is why the very first step needs to be: can you watch your thoughts?

Can you watch yourself have a thought and then feel something based on that thought, and then behave based on that? Like, Almost metaphorically fall behind, yourself. Think of yourself a movie, eating popcorn, and watch what your mind does. [00:45:00] then you're gonna have awareness to what is the mental home I live in now?

God, do I wanna keep thinking that for the rest of my life? If not, you're gonna have to think some new thoughts,

and in Many ways you will become a different person because you just don't think the same anymore. What I want your listeners to know is when you do this work and you're diligent in it, the payoff is absolutely immense.

I had a client who at the tail end of our work said he came quite frustrated to coaching, held quite a senior role in a large tech company and there's all these frustrating people to deal with. And at the end he said, there used to be a lot of jerks in my world." He used a different word.

"But I don't know where they all went. There's just, you know, wonderful people around me now." Red Mazda effect.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So Deep Wealth Nation, if you want to build some muscle, you can think about it. That's fine and good. You need to go to the gym in this case or do some push-ups, whatever the case is going to be. You actually have to do the work, [00:46:00] and we're hearing it straight from the source, do the work.

And the great news is pick up the book. That's part of doing the work for you. There's a done-for-you proven system and formula that you can follow of try this, try that, and Deep Wealth Nation, be open to it. I'm not that kind of person. Well, maybe you are, you just never tried, and you're gonna get so much joy and fulfillment once you do it, so try that, and I think that's some great advice with that.

And let me ask you this. We're not wrapping up just yet. That's a question or two down the road here. 

Dont Miss Your Life

Jeffrey Feldberg: But before we get there, is there an important question that you and I haven't covered just yet, or a message or a theme that you want to get out to Deep Wealth Nation? 

Susanne Biro: I'll say it this way. Please don't miss your life. This is your life, and none of us know how much time we have. And if we keep living our life like when I get there, then I will feel, which we can do for our entire lives,

Then we miss it all. You know, The idea that your life might be just perfect [00:47:00] right now in all its messiness and all the things that you want to be different.

There will never come a time where there won't be something that you don't want to be different because that's what's called a human life. So please just don't miss your life.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Yeah. It's the human condition. Suzanna, as you're talking about that, it's amazing how the mind works. You brought me back to a time, it was still early days, I was building Embanet, and for me to get to 10,000 enrollments, that was it. If I could do that, that was the magic. I've done it. I've hit the goal.

And I remember I was at a family dinner and a family member asked me, "So how's it going, Jeffrey? What's going on?" And we're actually very close to the 10,000 enrollments. And just in the moment, boom, I said, "Oh yeah, you know, we're getting there. We're close to 10,000 enrollments, but when we get to 25,000 enrollments, we've made it."

By the way, I can repeat that story because just the numbers changed. It's the same scenario and it kept on going and going. And had I done that, not only would I have missed out on the wonderful things [00:48:00] on the personal side, I would have overextended the business. There would not have been a business because I would have missed the signs that, hey, that's no longer the goal.

That's not what it's about. Hey, the business is exactly where it needs to be. It's time to focus on some other areas, maybe some other chapters or bringing other people to do that. So I love what you're sharing with that. Live your life and it's not the end all and be all. Just as one thing over here, look at the bigger picture, do the work, put in the time, do the exercises.

It's some great advice. 

Back To The Future Advice

Jeffrey Feldberg: And speaking of advice, it's the perfect segue into our wrap up. It's a tradition here on the Deep Wealth Podcast where every guest I'll ask the same question, and it's a fun question. When you think of the movie Back to the Future, you have that magical DeLorean car that will take you to any point in time.

So Susanne, tomorrow morning, you look outside your window, not only is the DeLorean car curbside, the door is open and it's waiting for you to hop on in, which you do. You're now going to go to any point in your life. It could be Susanne as a young child, a teenager, whatever point in time it would [00:49:00] be. What would you tell your younger self in terms of life lessons or life wisdom or, "Hey, Susanne, do this, but don't do that"?

What would it sound like?

Susanne Biro: go back to when I was 10 and I could see my parents. They both passed years ago. I would say just enjoy it all. The heartache, the pain, the loss, Everything that occurs is an experience of what it means to be human, and you can't know what it means to be human without feeling all of it.

So just enjoy all of it.

Jeffrey Feldberg: love that. Enjoy it all, including the heartache, the pain and the loss. And even to your point, to see your parents who have now passed away and Susanne, I'll be with friends or at a family dinner and I'll pinch myself and I'll say it to everyone out loud and they've heard me say this story, but I keep on saying it because it's so meaningful.

I say, "Guys, let's take a picture right now in our minds, and if we fast-forwarded 30 years from now, 40 years from now, we would look back at this time right now, no matter how crappy of a day that you had, and you say, 'Weren't those the days?'" Because some people sadly won't be here at [00:50:00] that time. "Look, so-and-so was still there," or, "Wow, look at how younger I am."

And it's right here, right now that today's the moment, and I just love that of Look around and enjoy the human condition and even the heartache, the pain, the loss, and even those that are in our lives right now, appreciate them because we just never know where that's gonna take us. That's some terrific insights.

Where To Find Susanne

Jeffrey Feldberg: And for those in Deep Wealth Nation, they have some questions, they wanna learn more. In addition to just picking up the book, which they can do that, where would be the best place online to learn more about you?

Susanne Biro: My website, and then you can follow, if you like my writing stuff, I post through a blog and through Substack and LinkedIn and those kind of things. So, lots of places there to follow whatever serves.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And Deep Wealth Nation, the great news is it doesn't get any easier. It's all in the show notes. Go to the show notes. It's a point and click, and please be sure to pick up the book. This could be everything for anyone who wants to make their tomorrow better than today. Sign me up. I'm right there. I love that.

[00:51:00] Well, Susanne, it's official. Congratulations. This is a wrap, and as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. Thank you so much. 

Subscribe And Support

Jeffrey Feldberg: So there you have it, Deep Wealth Nation. 

What did you think? 

So with all that said and as we wrap it up, I have another question for you.

Actually, it's more of a personal favor. 

Did you find this episode helpful? 

Have you found other episodes of the Deep Wealth Podcast empowering and a game changer for your journey? 

And if you said yes, and I really hope you did, I have a small but really meaningful way that you can actually help us out and keep these episodes coming to you.

Are you ready for it? 

The dramatic pause. I'll just wait a moment. Drumroll, please. Subscribe. Please subscribe to the Deep Wealth podcast on your favorite podcast channel. When you subscribe to the Deep Wealth Podcast, you're saving yourself time. Every episode automatically comes to you, and I want you to know that we meticulously craft Every one of our episodes to have impactful strategies, stories, expert insights that are designed to help you grow your profits, increase the value of your business, and yes, [00:52:00] even optimize your post exit life and your life right now, whatever you want that to look like.

And every time you subscribe and a fellow entrepreneur subscribe, it's a testament to how together, Yes, we are. We are changing the social fabric of society. One business owner at a time, one liquidity event at a time. So don't let the momentum stop here. Subscribe now on your favorite podcast channel.

You'll never miss an episode. You'll be the first to hear from the top industry leaders, the innovators, the disruptors that are really changing and shaping the business world, and maybe you're commuting, maybe you're at the gym, maybe you're taking a well deserved break that we spoke all about on this episode.

The Deep Wealth Podcast, it's your reliable source for the next big idea that could literally revolutionize your business. So once again, please hit that subscribe button, stay connected, inspired, and ahead of the curve. And again, your next big breakthrough moment, it might just be one episode away. Maybe it was even this episode.

So all that said. Thank you so much for listening. 

Final Thanks And Farewell

Jeffrey Feldberg: And remember your wealth isn't just about the money in the bank. It's [00:53:00] about the depth of your journey and the impact that you're creating. So let's continue this journey together. And from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for listening to this episode.

And as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you remain healthy and safe. 

Thank you so much. 

God bless.