324 Sally Gimon

Jeffrey Feldberg: [00:00:00] Sally Gimon, a seasoned insurance agent turned real estate investor, is now a subject matter expert in Spendthrift Trusts. With 20 years of industry experience, Sally effectively navigates wealth management and tax planning, teaching others how to leverage trust strategies for financial success and growth.

And before we hop into the podcast, a quick word from our sponsor, deep Wealth and the Deep Wealth Mastery Program. We have William, a graduate of Deep Both Mastery, and he says, I didn't have the time for Deep Both Mastery, but I made the time and I'm glad I did.

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The idea shared forever changed the trajectory of the business and best of all, the experience was fun. And we'll round things out with Stacey. 

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Welcome to the Deep Wealth Podcast. While we have a fellow business owner, and let me ask you for all you listeners out there in Deep wealth land, it's not how much your business earns or how much you get in the liquidity event. It's how much you keep. And all too often as business owners, we're so focused on the end goal.

We forget about Uncle Sam and taxes and what that looks like. So today, that's what we're going to be focusing on with our guests. Sally, and Sally, you know, I'm curious. There's always a story behind the story. What's your story, Sally? What got you from where you were to where you are today?

Sally Gimon: I appreciate that, Jeffrey. Back in October of 2018, my oldest nephew got married in Charlotte, North Carolina. I was living in Phoenix. My mom and dad were living in Goodyear, Arizona, about 20 miles west of Phoenix. They drove from Goodyear to the wedding. were going to be gone for two weeks. My mom got sick.

She got septic of the blood. She was on [00:03:00] the ventilator for 13 months. She was in the hospital for 15 months. She got better. I was working as a Medicare broker. I was going out to their house twice a week to do the mail. In the first week of December, a letter that was 27 pages thick from Centers of Medicare saying her first month in the hospital was 172, 000.

I called my friend, Glenn, who had invited me to a real estate meeting back in August of 2018, and I said, hey, open enrollment's starting. you know, I'm not going to do anything until January. I'm like, Glenn, I need to change my life. My dad was retired military. They had tried Care for Life, but, all of a sudden I'm thinking, I don't have this kind of money.

You know, If I get sick, what am I going to do? Glen says, hey, we're having a Christmas party next Saturday, bring a 5 gift and some food. And he goes, I know Glen and Rhonda, his wife, they're going, we're going to be late because we have a Christmas pageant. We'll just show up about six o'clock. I'm like, I don't know about you, Jeffrey, but going to a Christmas party where you know nobody, it was my best decision ever.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Okay. Into the unknown. I love that. So you get there and what happens?

Sally Gimon: Well, I started real [00:04:00] estate investing in 2019. I wholesaled seven properties. Did fantastic, paying off debt. A true story, my three week old car driving to work at 7 30 in the morning, second car through the green light and somebody ran the red light and t boned me on the passenger side.

All of a sudden I had two car payments. I was able to pay off my car, both car payments, everything else. Then on 3rd of 2020, my CPA called me and said, I need you to come into the office. We have to have a conversation. And that's when I found out on April 5th, I went to the office in Scottsdale and he said, do you realize you owe the federal government $75,000 in short-term capital gains for the seven deals you wholesaled?

I'm like, yikes. I don't know. he said I'm gonna set you up on a payment plan. I'll give you all the information. We're gonna work this out. We're gonna delay doing your taxes for as long as we can so you can start saving up money for this. down to the parking garage his office and I'm shocked, I'm just crying going, what am I going to do?

So I drive back home to [00:05:00] Phoenix in the middle of rush hour my great aunt Kitty always said sleep on it you'll get a resolution, so, you know, did a few things, went to bed early that night, woke up at 5am and thought, I need to find this book. Have you ever heard of a book by Garrett Gunderson called What the Rockefellers Do?

Jeffrey Feldberg: I have, but for the benefit of our listeners, why don't you give us a quick overview of that?

Sally Gimon: It's all about the Rockefellers Trust. They have a spin thrift trust. It's seven generations old. They have almost 400 people under the same EIN number. I start researching trying to find a law firm that would have the Spendthrift Trust. Found the law firm. They they don't do it, but I found a representative. I became their client, and then I talked to the representative saying, I want to teach this to my real estate group in Phoenix.

We had about 800 real estate investors. I became the first female mastermind in my real estate group, very proud of that fact, and trying to help other investors save short term and long term capital gains, interest income if you're doing like subject to or [00:06:00] creative financing or seller financing, and then rental income.

Plus, saving the taxes keeps your information 100 percent private. The old adage from Nelson Rockefeller, own nothing, control everything. If someone tries to sue me right now, I'm worth nothing. The lawsuit becomes frivolous because all my real estate and my three businesses are in the trust. And then, do you know about the 2024 Corporate Transparency Act starting January 1st from the Treasury Department?

Jeffrey Feldberg: Sally, why don't you tell us about that? And then from there, let's segue. We'll go really back to the foundation, back to the beginning for the business owners, but okay, what's going on with that? And then we'll segue into that. So what's happening?

Sally Gimon: This is past legislation. It starts January 1st, 2024. It's coming from the Treasury Department. It's part of the anti money laundering. Any business, like if you're currently an LLC, doing business as or corporation, if you're established already, you don't have to do the paperwork until January 1st of 2025.

If you start a new LLC, doing business [00:07:00] as or corporation in 2024, you have 90 days to do the paperwork. If you don't do the paperwork, you could be fined either 10, 000 Or two years in jail, or both. So this trust will save you, in so many different ways. For business owners they'll save federal income taxes. And then for investors, they will save five different taxes and not, never have to pay them back. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: let's talk about that. So before we get too technical and, down into the weeds with that. So I'm a listener in the community. I'm hearing you say, okay, Sally. I want to save taxes. Sure. I want to have more left over than what I'm doing right now. And I don't know where to begin, what to do.

I mean, I go to my accountants, they do my year end, they tell me, pay this in taxes. So Sally, what are most business owners missing from a big picture? Very high level. What's going on with that, that they don't know that they should know someone like yourself can help them with that.

Sally Gimon: The trust is legal. It's copywritten and it's in the IRS tax code 643B. I have three [00:08:00] articles I send to people who sit meetings with me from Forbes magazine. Each article says you should be making about three million to five million dollars. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: So Sally, walk us through that again. Let's take a step back here. So if what I'm hearing you say is, okay, if I have a business and it's of a certain size, I can create a trust and now the trust is going to own that business. And because the business is in a trust. There's legal ways that I can have lower taxes or put off paying taxes.

What's the logistics or the mechanics of that? How does that work as me owning the business or someone else owning the business, as opposed to the trust? It seems like that's the differentiator. If it's in this special kind of trust, that trust has a lower tax rate. Am I getting that right? Am I on base, off base?

Mm 

Sally Gimon: what's going to happen, you're going to file a 1041 tax return. A majority of Americans file 1040 tax returns and with the trust, the law firm work for, they have the 72 year old copyright on the trust. you a certification. In 72 years, not a single [00:09:00] trust has ever been audited. They make sure it's written correctly.

You're going to have a new EIN, Employee Identification Number. You're going to open a new bank account. Some of my clients might have several bank accounts the money goes into the new bank account, and then from the beneficial trust, I then can pay, whatever I need to.

With the business trust, it's going to cover everything. It's going to cover your mortgage, your homeowner's insurance, your electricity, your gas bill, your garbage pickup. You will have to go to the DMV and change the title on your cars to the trust name, the trust will pay for your car insurance, the registration of your car, the gas.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Sure. And so Sally, let me ask you this, because I know if I'm a listener, I'm hearing this talk and I'm thinking to myself, okay, I can save up to 90 percent on federal taxes and it's all legal. Sounds like it's something going on here. What's the catch? So how are we able to do this Sally? Because you're saying it's above board, it's legal, it's been around 75 years or so, really no [00:10:00] issues with that.

How's it possible?

Sally Gimon: Correct. Actually, it's older than that. It does come from England. Back when King Henry VIII the famous king who chopped off his wife's heads, he started the Church of England.

He also attacks the lords and ladies of England. They went back further in history with Magna Carta. They came to the United States while we were still a colony.

The law firm I work on behalf of, they inherited a trust that turned 350 years old in 2023. So, the Rich families, when the tax code went into effect in February of 1913, the Barron families, the Rockefellers, the DuPonts, the Carnegie's, and the Kennedy's, made sure they put this in the tax code. Worst case scenario, hope this doesn't happen, but if Congress ever changes the tax code 643B, I won't be able to sell any more trust and help any more people, but anyone who has a trust is a contract, and as long as the contract's in good standing, it cannot be broken, and my clients are saving thousands and thousands of dollars.

Do you mind if I tell you a [00:11:00] story about one of my clients?

Jeffrey Feldberg: Sure. We'd love to hear that.

Sally Gimon: He's a dentist, his wife is a school teacher, they have two young children, he has an LLC, he has a receptionist and hygienist that he pays for a dentist.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Okay. Mm

Sally Gimon: Which is just an extra branch, you know, you do a K 1 in March 15th, so you can do your taxes on April 15th. We took the dental practice out of the husband and wife's filing jointly.

He's going to save quite a bit of money there, and we lowered their joint taxes, because I can't work with the wife's W 2 income, unfortunately, that has to stay out of the trust. We're going to lower their tax rate right now at 32 percent.

They're going to lower it down to 24 percent. They're going to save thousands and thousands of dollars. The wife is looking at how much money they'll save in a full year, and she's like, I think I'm going to quit being a school teacher and stay home with the kids so we don't have to pay for after school daycare or anything like this.

I mean, it's giving people incredible options, there's so much savings to be done with this.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so the technical [00:12:00] name on this, this is what you're referring to as the spend thrift trust. Am I getting that right?

Sally Gimon: Correct. The full title, if you don't mind me telling it, is Irrevocable, Complex, X Discretionary, non grantor, spendthrift trust. All five elements are super important. Irrevocable, goes from generation to generation. Complex, it can hold money day to day, week to week, month to month, year to year.

Discretionary, whoever's the trustee or trustees can make the rules for the beneficiaries. Non grantor. When you start the trust, you're gonna have someone who's not a beneficiary become the settler set, set up the trust for you, be the trustee for 10 minutes, and then they sign themselves away. This is not a speed bump.

Either myself or somebody from the law firm can do this for you. Free of charge. You will need a social security number, and then spend thrift. It's been in front of the United States Supreme Court two different occasions. Both times, the Supreme Court has favored the Spendthrift Trust, said it's legal.

you make an appointment with me, I can send you two pages of case law [00:13:00] that shows that this trust is on the federal level, not the state level, it's on the federal level, and it works. clients, I'm not trying to crow, my clients are saving thousands of dollars with this.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so Sally, a listener who's saying, okay, wow, this sounds really good. Let me run this by my tax lawyer or my accountant. What are they likely going to hear? Do most accountants and lawyers know about this or are they going to hear it? Never heard of it. It's probably too good to be true. It doesn't exist.

Be careful.

Sally Gimon: true about that. Most CPAs study in law school. There are over a million attorneys in the United States. Only 4 percent are trust attorneys. In a textbook, the trust attorney study is called Scott and Asher on Trust, 5th edition. True story, do a monthly meeting. I had a grown son.

His parents have five apartment buildings in the Bronx. They're planning on selling he and his two sisters don't want to be real estate investors anymore. The parents are going to pay a lot of money in capital gains. He asked for information.

I sent him the information. He contacts me [00:14:00] about a week later saying my CPA does not believe this. So, I gave him the recommendation for that, and then I had someone set up an appointment with me a week after that. It was a CPA from New York. He's just like, I got a copy of this book I'm reading about this.

He goes, this is amazing. I have all kinds of clients who need to save money, you especially, he's a real estate He and I are working, I have a JV agreement, I work with him and his clients. We just help them save so much money doing that.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Got it. Okay. And so Sally, earlier you mentioned that you're working with a very specific law firm that goes back 350 years, give or take either side of that a long time ago. Are they the only ones that are able to do this or others are able to do this? What's the story with that?

Sally Gimon: there are certain law firms will do it. My law firm 72 years ago, Robert Benson was a Harvard Law Professor. He studied the Spendthrift Trust. He wrote the Benson Financial Trust. That's what it's called. He started his law firm back in Texas with his best friend. They left each one of their sons, and now it's a grandson.

So the law firm has changed. [00:15:00] But, you know you Google Spendthrift Trust, first thing you're going to see are different attorneys that deal with this, and, unfortunately, don't mean to be mean about this, but the middle class in the United States who start their own businesses and try make, get ahead of things, they're the ones who are getting taxed so much, and this is a solution for them.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Got it, okay. And so if I'm a business and I have a million dollars of revenue or a hundred million dollars of revenue, if I'm understanding what you're saying, regardless of the size, it all works. And the larger the business, the higher the profits, the more taxes that I'm going to save in this legal spendthrift trust, which is exactly what it was designed to do.

And if I take that narrative a little bit further, what it also sounds it's really the ultra wealthy, they know about this, their advisors know about this, and they've been using this for hundreds of years. And it's just the average lay person is not hearing about this and they're going about it the regular way. 

And so Sally, why don't you walk us through? So I'm a listener. Hey Sally, heard you on the Deep Wealth Podcast, really interested to learn more about this process and go through it. [00:16:00] Time wise, cost wise, you shared a little bit about that. How long does it take? And I know every business is different and every situation is unique.

I get that. Generally speaking though, for someone who's coming with you and saying, okay, yeah, Sally, go ahead. Let's do it. Let's get this in place. What are we looking at in terms of your process? What's going on? What are you walking me through? How long does that take?

Sally Gimon: Great question. What will happen, I'll send you the application. Again, there's the business trust for 1099 earners and U. S. business owners, the beneficial trust for investors. There's a very distinct difference between the two. I'll send the application when send the application back, we will get them their EIN number and a letter to go to the bank.

You can still use the same bank where your LLC is right now, but you will open up a new one. And then depending on what kind of businesses it is, let's say one of my clients, the pizzeria was talking about, they set up the trust and then they start changing their accounts over because they have accounts payable, they have money coming in, money going out.

because it's [00:17:00] local, I sat down with their bookkeeper and just explained here's a new account and she's just like, this will be easy, to do this. Most of my clients You know, have questions for the first few months, but after that, there's some paperwork. I'm going to be honest, there's some paperwork to be done.

And like when I started, the notes I have, there was a distinct way that we had to send a letter so many times a two month period. So, they knew that things didn't change on them. But after two months, the money started coming through the Beneficial Trust, like way it was designed.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So Sally, what I'm hearing you say is someone who wants to go about doing this, they'll work with you. You'll help guide them through the paperwork. There's a legal team that you're working with, some lawyers who will help set this up. And then once that's done, you get some government papers, some EIN numbers going, and then it's like anything else.

Because it's really, even though it's an existing business, it's almost as though So it's going through like you're a new business, which technically I suppose it is because you're setting up new bank accounts and new numbers and everything else that goes along with that. But the business continues doing [00:18:00] what it's doing and it's just on the backend, it sounds like there's a transitionary period, different bank accounts, maybe new checks that are coming out, different names, but that's about it.

And so what would be the biggest downside? There's lots of upside, nothing's ever perfect. If there's a downside to this, what would that be? What do you think that would be?

Sally Gimon: would say the worst downside is if future generations don't keep it up, keep doing, let's say future generations, instead of being an entrepreneur, going to be W 2 income people. the money might not be going through the trust. At that time, That could be the worst case scenario, but there are people, you know, people to talk to them for that.

Jeffrey Feldberg: What I'm also hearing you say though, a potential downside, it just sounds like there's some logistics that needs to happen. You have to have a different bank account set up. You have to change over your payables, your receivables.

Once you go through that, though, it sounds like it's just done and now for the first year and then going forward, how my accountants prepare the taxes, how I file the taxes, does that change for me or is it a different set of accountants that I need, you know, [00:19:00] what's going on there?

Sally Gimon: We introduce you accountants wherever you are who understand how to file the paperwork with the trust. your CPA. You'll have 1041 tax return done for you. That's part of the cost of the trust then they will train your accountant after the business season is over with, and again, several accountants that I've been working with, have other clients, they want to learn how to do this so they can be filing right paperwork for their clients too.

We're always looking for more accountants to work with the law firm.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Got it. Okay. Okay. So it sounds like a little bit of education on my accountant's part, but you, your team, the system, it's set up to help walk them through that. And I suppose it's like anything else after you do it once, the next time is easier. The next one after that's even easier. And before you know it, it's just like it was before.

And the upside is. As a business owner that now has a trust that's owning the business, I'm, from what you're saying earlier, I'm really protecting myself legal wise if there's any lawsuits against the company, and at the same time, I'm also paying lower taxes that go along with that. How am I doing with that so [00:20:00] far?

Sally Gimon: spot on.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Terrific. And again, just to recap, because I know, we hear these things. We also hear the horror stories and with the internet, it gets magnified even more. But for our listeners who are saying, okay, I can save up to 90 percent in taxes. This has been around for nearly 400 years. I'm just upping that a little bit.

The ultra wealthy are using it. And I probably haven't heard about it because I'm not necessarily in the right circles until now. Sally, you and this law firm, you're really taking it out too. Everyday people making it accessible to them. And they're the ones that are gonna be benefiting from this. Let me ask you this.

I don't want to jinx anything in asking you this question. I mean, if this is so good, why hasn't the government really buttoned up this loophole? What's going on with that?

Sally Gimon: I'm going to be honest, a lot of the US presidents and senators have this trust themselves. They know about it. Like you said they know the right people. I'm not trying to be political, but I'm really watching what's going on with former president Trump. His father started the trust for the family back in the [00:21:00] seventies.

One thing that trusts will not cover is fraudulent activity. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: And for the benefit of our listeners, if they're not following along, so a trust in the eyes of the law, even though it's not a living, breathing person, the law recognizes this as a separate entity. So that's why Sally, you were saying earlier, if you own your company personally, if you have an LLC, if you have an S corporation, a C corporation, whatever the case may be.

That's what the law is currently recognizing, but when you put it into the trust, the eyes of the law now go to the trust itself, and you're taking yourself out of the mix. And so what I'm hearing you say is as long as the trust is in compliance. Everything goes well. And in answer to my earlier question, what I'm also hearing you saying, most of the politicians, most of the ultra wealthy are using this trust mechanism.

And so for their own benefit, they want to make sure this trust is around for their family, for the future generations, for their wealth. And that's likely one of the reasons why this has stayed here for all these hundreds of years [00:22:00] and why it's still in good standing. How am I doing with that, Sally?

Sally Gimon: Perfect, exactly, and once you start the trust, you know, it is a contract and, again follow one of my favorite books Rich Dad, Poor Dad, he always talks about pay attention what the rich do. The rich know things that regular people don't know and, again, I used the book from Garrett Gunderson.

I'm just like, if the Rockefellers could do it, why can't I do this?

With the trust, because it's copywritten, that's considered a royalty income. I do have three online businesses. I have saved six figures in federal taxes within the last three years, and that money's my money to spend how I want.

If I want to start another business, If I want to start a charity, if I want to give to charity, it's my options to do that.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Wow, almost sounds so good to be true, but you've given us all the reasons why it is true and why it is good. And so Sally, let me ask you this before we go into wrap up mode. Is there a question that perhaps I didn't ask that I should have, or a topic that we haven't covered, or is there a message that we haven't spoken about [00:23:00] that you'd like to get out to the community?

Sally Gimon: One message I do want to talk about is the liability, saving you from liability. We're in a litigious society and, it can save you there. And then also I want to make sure your listeners know, even if they don't get the trust. They do need to know about the 2024 Corporate Transparency Act. Google it.

It's Financial Crimes Network. It's a division of the Treasury Department. It's going to affect almost every small business in the United States, unfortunately.

Jeffrey Feldberg: And so it really sounds like as with everything else, make sure you have the right people around you. You're asking the right questions. They have the right questions that they're answering for you and they're asking on your behalf just to keep you on the straight and narrow and keeping all of us out of trouble.

Sally Gimon: Exactly.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Well, Sally, why don't we do this? I have the pleasure and it's a ritual here and it's really an honor here at the Deep Wealth Podcast where I have the privilege of asking the guests the same question. Here's the question for you. It's a fun one. Let me set this up for you. When you think of the movie Back to the Future, you have a magical DeLorean car that will take you to any point in time.

So Sally, [00:24:00] imagine now, and this is the fun part, is tomorrow morning, you look outside your window, not only is the DeLorean car sitting there, the door is open, it's waiting for you to hop on in, which you do, and you're now going to go back to any point in your life. Sally, as a young child, a teenager, whatever point in time that would be, What are you telling your younger self in terms of life lessons or life wisdom, or hey, Sally, do this, but don't do that.

What would that sound like?

Sally Gimon: I would say to Sally, I got to travel a lot. I was in the Peace Corps for two years and I traveled east around the world. I would say to Sally, you should have started real estate investing much, much earlier than being 53. You could have so much money and travel so much more.

Jeffrey Feldberg: So start that real estate investing a whole lot earlier. Terrific advice that's out there. And Sally, before we wrap this up, I know we're gonna have all the links in the show notes. If a listener has a question or they want to move forward with this, Hey, Sally, why don't you set me up on this trust? That sounds really good.

Or whatever it may be. They just want to have a conversation with you. Where's the best place online that they can reach you?

Sally Gimon: I appreciate that, Jeffrey. My [00:25:00] website, www. realestateinvesting. com. The trust is you, y o u dot com. You, when you go out there, video will be emailed to you that talks about the trust, so you can watch it on your own time, on your cell phone, or on your desktop. And then after that, you can schedule an appointment with me.

Again when you make an appointment, I'm going to give you a lot of information, so you can make the right decision for yourselves. And, you know, people do need to figure this out because they have never heard about it before. That's my goal. I appreciate you having me on your podcast because I love to just educate people about this.

Jeffrey Feldberg: Well, you're doing a terrific job with that and we appreciate you sharing this really new way of looking at things. It's not new itself, but it's new for a lot of people who are listening to this. We appreciate you doing that. Well, you know what, Sally, congratulations. It's a wrap. It's official.

Congratulations. This is now done. And as we love to say here at Deep Wealth, may you continue to thrive and prosper while you stay healthy and safe. Thank you so much, Sally.

Sally Gimon: Thank you, Jeffrey. Have a wonderful week. 

Jeffrey Feldberg: So there you have it, Deep Wealth Nation. What did you think? So with all that said and as [00:26:00] we wrap it up, I have another question for you.

Actually, it's more of a personal favor. Did you find this episode helpful? Have you found other episodes of the Deep Wealth Podcast empowering and a game changer for your journey? And if you said yes, and I really hope you did, I have a small but really meaningful way that you can actually help us out and keep these episodes coming to you.

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